Civil Protest, Policing, Moving Forward

[ParkMan]

NIce post @Eagledad.  I didn't know that about WB - but I am not surprised. 

I think most leaders who attend trainings are earnestly trying to do the right things.  The paucity of leader training makes it difficult for leaders who do not instinctively know these things or who come from a troop that does not already have a strong patrol method culture.  Though folks like to blame WB, I think the real issue is that the BSA doesn't have an intermediate level Scouts BSA sequence of courses that cover these things. I would welcome a sequence of intermediate and advanced courses for unit volunteers that when complete allowed the Scouter to receive some special recognition.  Something equivalent to receiving your Wood Badge beads (or better yet even more prestigious) that signified that you are a Scouter who has been through a series of courses to learn all about how Troops work.  A sequence taught by the best Scouters in the council.

[MattR]

 

On 9/8/2020 at 10:58 PM, TAHAWK said:

ACLU staffer fumes at University for accepting Nick Sandmann [as a student], calls it a 'stain' on the school.

....

@TAHAWK, and everyone else. If anyone quotes articles then they need to do it right. We need to be able to see the reference (a link to the original article is fine - just copy and paste the url) and we need to easily distinguish what is in the article and with what the poster is adding. (This can be done by highlighting the text and hitting the quote button, or using quote marks for small sections).

There are a couple of reasons for this: First, it's bad form to plagiarize other people's work. Next, the moderators are obligated to understand what is being posted and it would be much easier if references were done correctly. Similarly, it really helps everyone in understanding what the poster is trying to say. You may think you're clearly delineating quoted text from your own but it's not always clear to us.

[MattR]

On 9/8/2020 at 5:42 PM, yknot said:

That's my point. From the comments on this board, its clear we were all raised that way. I was free range. I roamed the neighborhood and local woods with a large pod of kids. We had drama, crises, fights, danger, you name it. We worked it out among ourselves. No parent involved.

 

On 9/9/2020 at 9:09 AM, Eagledad said:

From my years of working with and training Scouters, I found the biggest hurdle for adults to get over with the Patrol Method is simply trusting that it works. The idea that scouts learning to make better decisions simply by making bad decisions is a lot for todays adults  grasp.

Maybe what this adds up to is: When we were young it was easy to use the patrol method because we had the experiences, as free range kids, to deal with people problems. And now it's much harder.

I had luck with having a feedback mechanism for the patrols. Often, people problems would fester but having guidance to show the scouts how to bring up tough subjects in a thorns and roses session helped. It's the little things like this that aren't really described very well. Teamwork really depends on dealing with these types of problems.

[ParkMan]

14 hours ago, SSScout said:

The Patrol Method works, and it HAS to work without the interference of adults.  That is the problem with the New Scout Patrol.  Where is the continuity?  I was in THE Eagle Patrol for six years !     

We had this discussion in our troop too.  What we realized is that there are really two primary styles of patrols - mixed age patrols and same age patrols.  New Scout patrols are a logical extension of the same age patrol model.  Youth are grouped together by age, the start in a troop as a group, and they journey through Scouts together.  In many ways, it mirrors life for the youth.  This model has a tendency to promote a tighter patrol bond as the youth are together for the long haul.  They go through similar stages together, etc.

The mixed age patrol model is predicated on the notion that you've got older Scouts and younger Scouts in the same patrol.  This is good for having patrols who all have a similar level of capability.  It can do an OK job of creating friendships - but likely not as strong as a same age patrols.

New scout patrols are really only an issue who you try to use them with mixed age patrols.  Even there they are not necessarily a problem.  Scouts were not in the same patrol prior to joining the troop - so delaying that a year isn't the end of the world.  The benefit of them too is that in a mixed age patrol setting, it can be difficult to do all the checklist items in the earlier ranks.  Having some ability to work with those with other youth at the same age doing the same kind of things can be a positive.

Where this all becomes an issue is when adults haven't thought all this through and are not thinking of this from an aims and methods perspective.  

[Owls_are_cool]

My troop is too small to have effective patrols, but for each activity that doesn't involve the SPL, I have the scouts elect a Patrol leader and try to get the patrol method going. This year my older scouts did a high adventure summer camp, while the younger scouts did a normal summer camp a month later. In Woodbadge, they talk about the stages of team development: forming, storming, norming, preforming, and finally disband. The group of younger scouts stormed most of the time making it the hardest camp I experienced. I couldn't let them alone as a group, because fights (physical and verbal) were constant. But they had to work as a group beforehand to decide what activities to do a camp as a group, work together on a service project, and so forth. 

Adults do have to interfere for safety reasons, but it is possible to leave most all of the decisions with the scouts as possible. I gave the patrol leader of the group the charge to earn the honor patrol award for camp and he got the group to get buy in. I also gave the patrol leader the service project challenge. 

The youngest scout (age 11) gave me the most trouble, like the two youngest scouts gave me some trouble the year before. I am finding that these scouts are maturing and developing in character. The patrol method has a role in that, so I am sticking with the method even though it is not pretty.

 

[Eagledad]

53 minutes ago, MattR said:

 

Maybe what this adds up to is: When we were young it was easy to use the patrol method because we had the experiences, as free range kids, to deal with people problems. And now it's much harder.

Maybe, but what really worked for us was the support from the leaders. If the adults don't by-in to Patrol method, they won't let the scouts by-in. Let me say it better, the scouts will only by-in to whatever the adults give them. 

I'm not sure about the free range theory as far as youth today not working well with Patrol Method. I'm not sure youth back in the 60's would have accepted it better if their leaders then had the mentality of leaders today. If patrol method must change today, it's not because it needs to change for scouts, it's because it needs to change for the adults.

Barry

[Eagledad]

59 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

New scout patrols are really only an issue who you try to use them with mixed age patrols.  Even there they are not necessarily a problem.  Scouts were not in the same patrol prior to joining the troop - so delaying that a year isn't the end of the world.  The benefit of them too is that in a mixed age patrol setting, it can be difficult to do all the checklist items in the earlier ranks.  Having some ability to work with those with other youth at the same age doing the same kind of things can be a positive.

Where this all becomes an issue is when adults haven't thought all this through and are not thinking of this from an aims and methods perspective.  

This is basically  how we ended up getting new scouts up to speed. We found that adding more than two new scouts to an existing patrol disrupted up patrol dynamics too much, so when we recruited more scouts than two per patrol, we created temporary NSPs. We found that one year to merge new scouts into existing patrols was way to long. They start getting board because the patrols don't have the experience to stay busy. Six months was the going average for scouts merging. And we didn't set dates, we told the New Scouts they could merge anytime, and the existing patrol could start recruiting anytime as well. We let them set the process.

One of the main program activities that the NSP program basically killed was troops planned annual program. Before the NSP program, the annual troop agenda was different for every troop because they weren't held to one crop of new scouts that had to be trained and advance. Patrols were typically always doing some new scout training because they received one or two new scouts several times a year. Since troops were now receiving the vast majority of their new scouts at the same time, the unintended consequence was the NSP pushing the Patrols role of teaching new scouts to the troop annual program for training.Adults today think that training new scouts and getting all scouts up to first class is the highest priority for the program, but it didn't used to be that way. That attitude came with NSPs, and it was reinforced with the First Class in the First Year plan given by National. One reinforced the other. That limited the maturity of the culture and drove the older scouts out.

I believe NSPs are necessary when existing patrols can't handle the attention new scout require without disrupting the patrol dynamics. But, even then adults must understand that growth and maturity in a NSP or same age patrols is slower than mixed age patrol. And, NSPs required more adult attention than mixed age patrols. It is a difficult balance.

Barry

[David CO]

We have an entire forum devoted to the patrol method.  Is there a polite way for me to suggest that this conversation be moved over to that forum?

[Eagledad]

Patrol Method Commercial Break. Your scheduled program will return in the heat of a moment.

[yknot]

1 hour ago, MattR said:

 

Maybe what this adds up to is: When we were young it was easy to use the patrol method because we had the experiences, as free range kids, to deal with people problems. And now it's much harder.

I had luck with having a feedback mechanism for the patrols. Often, people problems would fester but having guidance to show the scouts how to bring up tough subjects in a thorns and roses session helped. It's the little things like this that aren't really described very well. Teamwork really depends on dealing with these types of problems.

I've been thinking about this. Starting at the cub level, things like knife skills, fire skills, camping skills, citizenship skills, etc., are taught. A cyber chip has been added. I don't really see anywhere though that we specifically teach the basic tools of leadership which is kind of core to the program.  The program creates leadership opportunities and situations but there's nothing about what is a team, what is leadership, what do you do when not everyone agrees, how do you run a meeting, what is compromise, etc. Older kids that seek out the training can get some of this through  ISLT and NYLT but that's not every scout and pretty far up the line. And it doesn't help new scouts who are facing their first real experience trying to work as a team in a patrol. It seems like some of these skills could be taught at the Webelos level, with some stepped components through Tenderfoot, in order to help new scouts better navigate the patrol process and learn from it rather than quit.

We might be getting off topic with this discussion but in a way it relates back to the OP topic of civil protest because these are some obvious issues we are having with our youth. Polarization. An inability to tolerate different views. Youth who have no idea how to compromise because it hasn't been part of their upbringing. This is noted in the educational system and to a lesser degree in other youth organizations like sports where some teams have dispensed with team captains or rotate the position for each game. Peer to peer leadership has become really problematic. Schools and sports are shying away from it but if it is that central to the patrol method, why don't we teach it.

 

[RememberSchiff]

Tolerance, compromise...thinking before you speak and slower to take offense might help.

To some, Democratic Senate candidate Mark Kelly, a retired NASA astronaut, made an offensive remark during a 2018 appearance before the Northern New Jersey Council, BSA.

During a question-and-answer portion, Kelly was asked if he thought there would be a time in which Mars was colonized. Kelly said his brother Scott, also an astronaut, went aboard the space station for a year and that his DNA was altered from either radiation or zero-gravity.

“I think the word hasn’t gotten out how bad it is for him,” Kelly said. “You know, it’s gotten so bad, that we recently had to release him back into the wild,” he continued to a laughing crowd.

“He’s like halfway between an orangutan and a Howler Monkey. We’ve even changed his name to Rodrigo. He lives in the woods. He lives in Eagle Rock Reservation,” a reference to a New Jersey forest reserve and recreational park.

...

“Shameful video of Mark Kelly making a racist joke to an all-white crowd,” responded Moses Sanchez, a Republican businessman and Navy veteran who unsuccessfully ran for Phoenix mayor in 2018.

It is unclear if the crowd was all white.

“He must think people named Rodrigo look like monkeys. Time to move past this type of racism & time for the media to scrutinize Mark Kelly more thoroughly like they would a Republican," Sanchez wrote.

 

Kelly apologized for his remarks Thursday after The Arizona Republic asked about them.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/09/10/democratic-senate-candidate-mark-kelly-apologizes-offensive-joke/3457056001/

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/blog/meet-press-blog-latest-news-analysis-data-driving-political-discussion-n988541/ncrd1239799#blogHeader

Above link includes speech video, at 10:00 Mr. Kelly answers Mars question

 

Edited September 10, 2020 by RememberSchiff
date correction

[Eagledad]

17 minutes ago, yknot said:

I've been thinking about this. Starting at the cub level, things like knife skills, fire skills, camping skills, citizenship skills, etc., are taught. A cyber chip has been added. I don't really see anywhere though that we specifically teach the basic tools of leadership which is kind of core to the program.  The program creates leadership opportunities and situations but there's nothing about what is a team, what is leadership, what do you do when not everyone agrees, how do you run a meeting, what is compromise, etc.

The programs original design didn't intend for scouts to be direct leaders until they had the maturity to learn from the experience, which is about 14 years old. Most leadership is learned by observing, not direct teaching, which is why Leadership Training is designed for older scouts. The natural instinct for prepubescent youth is to hang with the gang or herd so as not to stand out in danger. Rarely does a young scout learn anything from the experience. Once the fun of being the point man wears off, they start dreading the experience even to the point of not showing up. That is why I don't like giving new scouts the role of Patrol Leader their first year.

24 minutes ago, yknot said:

And it doesn't help new scouts who are facing their first real experience trying to work as a team in a patrol. It seems like some of these skills could be taught at the Webelos level, with some stepped components through Tenderfoot, in order to help new scouts better navigate the patrol process and learn from it rather than quit.

 

It is taught in Webelos. Much of the Webelos program is basically light mimicking of the patrol and working on basic Scout Skills. But, the difference between an adult leading the group and a scout leading the group is huge. Youth have been trained to trust adults. New Scouts need time and experience to trust that a youth can also be a safe leader. Once they get that experience (about 6 months), they are ready to focus on the basic program. 

36 minutes ago, yknot said:

We might be getting off topic with this discussion but in a way it relates back to the OP topic of civil protest because these are some obvious issues we are having with our youth. Polarization. An inability to tolerate different views. Youth who have no idea how to compromise because it hasn't been part of their upbringing. This is noted in the educational system and to a lesser degree in other youth organizations like sports where some teams have dispensed with team captains or rotate the position for each game. Peer to peer leadership has become really problematic. Schools and sports are shying away from it but if it is that central to the patrol method, why don't we teach it.

 

Agreed.

Barry

[TAHAWK]

6 hours ago, MattR said:

 

Maybe what this adds up to is: When we were young it was easy to use the patrol method because we had the experiences, as free range kids, to deal with people problems. And now it's much harder.

I had luck with having a feedback mechanism for the patrols. Often, people problems would fester but having guidance to show the scouts how to bring up tough subjects in a thorns and roses session helped. It's the little things like this that aren't really described very well. Teamwork really depends on dealing with these types of problems.

Thanks you for your observation on quotations and citing sources - which observation does not appear when I click "Quote" beneath it.  Instead the above quotation appears, as you see.  

I will try harder to be clear on what are quotations and the source(s) of those quotations.

 

Quote

 

"ACLU staffer fumes at university for accepting Nick Sandmann, calls it a 'stain' on the school: report

An American Civil Liberties Union official in Kentucky chastised Transylvania University over the weekend for accepting Nicholas Sandmann as a student, calling the move a 'stain' on the institution.

Sandmann made headlines back in January 2019 when a Native American activist stood in front of the teen and began chanting in his face during a pro-life rally at the Lincoln Memorial in Washington, D.C.  Sandmann, who was wearing a MAGA hat at the time and is a supporter of President Trump, held his ground and smiled at the man as he continued to talk [and beat a drum] in [sic] his face.

 'Does anyone else think it’s a bit of a stain on Transylvania University for accepting Nick Sandman [sic]? I’m sure it’s a "both sides” defense, but it’s pretty counter to their mission and another instance of there not actually being equal sides to an issue,' [emphasis added] ACLU’s Samuel Crankshaw said in a Facebook post, according to The National Review.

 The comment was temporarily taken down for an additional note to be added but was eventually restored and came back online. Crankshaw later reached out to Fox News and provided this brief statement:

'The views I expressed on my Facebook page are my personal views that I shared on my personal time,' he said in an email. 'I have a First Amendment right to express them just as Nick Sandmann has a First Amendment right to express his. My views do not necessarily reflect the views of my current or past employers. I will continue to express my views on my personal time.'

Amber Duke, Deputy Director for the ACLU of Kentucky, also reached out to Fox News following the story's publication and provided a statement supportive of Crankshaw, but said his views do not necessarily represent that of the organization.

'These were personal views expressed on personal time on a personal Facebook account," she wrote in a statement. "The views in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of the ACLU of Kentucky. As a stalwart defender of the First Amendment, the ACLU of Kentucky respects its employees' freedom to express themselves on their own time.'

...

Following the Lincoln Memorial confrontation , outlets such as CNN and The Washington Post were accused of purposely casting Sandmann –­ and his fellow Covington Catholic students –­ as the main aggressors with misleading reporting. Both outlets ultimately reached a legal settlement with Sandmann after he sued them in court for $250 million.

 The defamation suit sought damages for the 'emotional distress Nicholas and his family suffered' in the fallout of the network's reporting -- and lawyers for Sandmann have said they will target other major outlets who reported on the story in the same way.

An assistant professor and diversity scholar at Transylvania Unversity, Avery Tompkins, shared a comment on the post before it was taken down, calling Sandmann's 'public behavior and rhetoric atrocious and uninformed,' adding that the young student must accept his class as gospel, The National Review reported. [citing as its source Professor Jonathan Turley, an ACLU staff member and Chaired Professor of Law at George Washington University Law School  https://jonathanturley.org/2020/09/08/aclu-official-attacks-university-for-admitting-nick-sandmann-while-professor-promises-to-monitor-his-conduct/  Turley is a Chicago BA and Northwestern JD.  Professor Turley published a screen shot of Tompkin's deleted comment.]

'We can’t not admit academically qualified students due to their political and personal views,' he [Tompkins] said. 'If he [Sandmann] ends up in my Intro class, fine. He might learn something that is actually based on research and evidence.'

Tompkins added that Sandmann is part of groups that hold 'anti-intellectualist views' and would see the professor [Tompkins]  'as part of some liberal brainwashing machine, but signing up for Transy and my class means he is required to learn that information, even if he disagrees.'

The professor [Tompkins] continued: 'If he were to cause problems by being disruptive, trolling, or engaging in unethical behavior of any kind, I would immediately document it (just like I would for any student doing the same thing)…and he would just be putting himself in a position for me to file a conduct report.' [italics added]

Tompkins later issued an apology saying, 'I want to apologize for my mistake in singling out a student and any misunderstandings [sic] that arose from that.'

 'One of my favorite things about working at a liberal arts institution is that our community has diverse perspectives,' he [Tompkins] continued. 'All students, faculty and staff are able to engage in civil discourse with those whose views may be different from their own, and to learn about those views in an academic setting. I value and support these conversations with students, and I know that students value these conversations with their peers as well.'

The university said in a statement to National Review on Tuesday that it would be reviewing the situation and that 'Transylvania, like nearly every campus, is composed of those holding the full range of viewpoints.'"

 

 

 Source: Fox News (from https://www.nationalreview.com/news/aclu-official-attacks-university-for-accepting-provocateur-in-training-nick-sandmann/)

 

Quote

 

Samuel Crookshank

 

"TITLE/POSITION

Communications Associate

DEPARTMENT

Communications

PRONOUNS

he, him, his

Sam joined the ACLU of Kentucky in July 2019. His work primarily focuses on designing outreach materials, managing digital outreach, and documenting the ACLU’s work with photos and videos. Sam and the Communications Director work closely with the advocacy and legal teams to inform and educate the ACLU’s members, activists throughout the state, and the general public about civil liberties issues in Kentucky. 

Before joining the ACLU, Sam worked for the City of Lexington, KY, as a Graphic and Digital Communications Coordinator, was on the design and planning teams for the 2018 Kentucky Bike-Walk Summit, and was the Deputy Field Director for a congressional campaign. Sam received his BA from Transylvania University in International Affairs and French Language and Literature, with a minor in Studio Art. He graduated summa cum laude and is a Transylvania Scholar. While at Transy, he served on the Student Government Association, was the Program Manager of Transy Bikes, studied abroad, volunteered for local and statewide political campaigns, and interned with the University’s Offices of Community Engagement and Sustainability.

Sam is a native of Winchester, KY. He got involved with politics at a young age, canvassing for a candidate for the first time at the age of 9. In his free time, Sam enjoys biking, running, spending time with his 3-legged dog, painting, drawing, photography, and watching whatever the hot new binge show is."

 SOURCE: https://www.aclu-ky.org/en/biographies/samuel-crankshaw

 

 "Dr. Avery Tompkins

Diversity Scholar

 

The first thing you notice about Avery Tompkins is his [sic] energy. He [sic] exudes enthusiasm. Perhaps that comes from the many hours he’s [sic]  spent hiking the Appalachian Trail (around 750 miles so far). Or perhaps, as a self-described “teacher/scholar/activist,” he [sic] is simply accustomed to juggling multiple roles and shifting his [sic] energies from one task to the next."

 

 SOURCE:  https://www.transy.edu/academics/faculty/atompkins/

 

 

Edited September 10, 2020 by MattR
Tried " button, and it worked.

[MattR]

@TAHAWK, it worked for me.

If I just tap the " button above the editor, between the link button and the <> button, I get

Quote

 

And I can paste into it. Or, I can paste some stuff, hilight it, and then press the " button

Quote

Now is the time for all brave men to come to the aid of their country.

Does that help? I'm not sure what you did but I fixed your post.

[TAHAWK]

13 hours ago, MattR said:

 

@TAHAWK, and everyone else. If anyone quotes articles then they need to do it right. We need to be able to see the reference (a link to the original article is fine - just copy and paste the url) and we need to easily distinguish what is in the article and with what the poster is adding. (This can be done by highlighting the text and hitting the quote button, or using quote marks for small sections).

There are a couple of reasons for this: First, it's bad form to plagiarize other people's work. Next, the moderators are obligated to understand what is being posted and it would be much easier if references were done correctly. Similarly, it really helps everyone in understanding what the poster is trying to say. You may think you're clearly delineating quoted text from your own but it's not always clear to us.

Just as in this case, I left clicked on the "reply" space.

Quote

 

This is what I got when I left clicked on the " button.

Alas, I wish technology had not passed me by.

I have no problems in the other three forums that I  frequent.

 

A question arose regarding the position of BLM  on the existence of the police.  Obviously, no single person speaks for such a decentralized and diverse movement.

"A Black Lives Matter Philadelphia representative outlined a five-year plan for the “complete abolition” of the city’s police department.

Activist YahNé Ndgo discussed her plan during a segment on Fox News Wednesday saying the police aren’t needed for communities to be safe; change is.

“One of the things that we are demanding over five years is the complete abolition. We don’t want to see any police in our community,” Ndgo told Fox News in an interview Tuesday. “Over the course of those five years, it gives time for the community to begin to build what is needed. We aren’t looking to leave any kind of vacancy around the issue of safety.”

SOURCE: https://www.blackenterprise.com/black-lives-matter-leader-outlines-five-year-plan-to-eliminate-police/

"WHITE SAFETY IS CANCER PREVENTION. BLACK SAFETY IS ALL-DAY CHEMOTHERAPY. ABOLITION SEEKS TO ERADICATE THIS JIM CROW SYSTEM."

 SOURCE: VANITY fAIR https://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2020/08/the-abolition-movement

 "Alicia Garza, founder of the Black Futures Lab and one of the women who coined the phrase #BlackLivesMatter, says that even after 26 criminal-justice reform laws passed in 40 states since 2013, “not much has changed.” About a thousand people are killed at the hands of police every year, according to MappingPolice Violence .org, and the victims are still disproportionately black. That’s why Garza believes true change entails stemming the flow of taxpayer money to police."

SOURCE: https://time.com/5848318/black-lives-matter-activists-tactics/]

COMMENT:  Black persons shot to death by police:

 https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6080222/

 

"'We call for a national defunding of police. We demand investment in our communities and the resources to ensure Black people not only survive but thrive,' Black Lives Matter, the international anti-racist advocacy group, said in a statement. 'George Floyd’s violent death was a breaking point — an all too familiar reminder that, for Black people, law enforcement doesn’t protect or save our lives. They often threaten and take them.'  "

SOURCE:  https://www.forbes.com/sites/monicamelton/2020/06/08/why-the-aclu-black-lives-matter-and-others-want-to-defund-the-police-while-this-weapons-supplier-disagrees/#fbd0b

 "'This is a long-term abolition movement' said Des Moines Black Lives Matter organizer Matthew Bruce, 24. 'So defunding police is our current demand, but it is certainly not the end goal. The end goal is to completely dismantle and destruct all forms of white supremacy — and policing is a form of white supremacy.'"

SOURCE: https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/local/government/2020/07/20/defunding-police-what-does-that-mean-in-des-moines-iowa-city-leaders-dont-support-idea-defund-police/5408386002/

 Comment: It is a fact that this story does not reflect that Mr. Bruce was asked if policing civilian criminals who commit thousands of crimes of violence against Black persons, including selling drugs that are killing tens of thousands of Black people annually,  should be including in the goal of "abolition."

 "From oversight to abolition: Black Lives Matter challenges the police in court, and beyond ...

Episode 958: Via [SIC]  la Commune

Black Lives Matter Chicago organizers Aislinn Pulley and Kofi Ademola discuss the group’s participation in a class action lawsuit against the City of Chicago over Mayor Rahm Emanuel’s attempt to avoid federal oversight over the CPD, and explain why that oversight is not the end goal, but a first step in process that seeks to abolish the police and prisons, and establish community control of harm reduction and justice in our neighborhoods.  Read the complaint filed in the lawsuit against the City of Chicago and the CPD here."

SOURCE:  https://www.blacklivesmatterchicago.com/from-oversight-to-abolition-black-lives-matter-challenges-the-police-in-court-and-beyond/

" Defund the Police – Demands

Defund the Police. 

Demilitarize the Police. 

Disarm the Police. 

Dismantle the Police. "

SOURCE: https://blacklivesmatter.ca/defund-the-police/