Civil Protest, Policing, Moving Forward

[yknot]

17 minutes ago, Navybone said:

One way to look at the current unrest by blacks in this county is to think that if a majority of this group, which makes 13% of our nation, is disenfranchised due to how they are being treated, then maybe this is worth trying to understand, looking at how to solve some of the racism they are encountering, if I can. 
There is also the option of thinking this is not my problem, or it’s not that bad, or even to outright dismiss them and accuse them of being trouble makers.  Who are “they”to make a fuss. These people are exceptionally narrow minded and are absolutely part of the problem.   It is you.  You accuse me of being an apologist. No, I have decided that enough is enough and there is a valid point of discussion.  I do this not because it is easy, but because part of this country’s population is hurting.   It is not an comfortable position for me to take.     What is more comfortable is to bury my head in the sand, deny any issues, mark it up to rabble rousers and anarchists.  Easier to just rely on right wing media and follow however that portray it.  My failure is believing that just because people on this site are part of scouts, that they live or espouse any of the aspects of what scouting teaches our youth.  
 

 

Is it being disenfranchised or is it an opposition to everything that is part of Western culture, which the BLM website actually states?  I have colleagues from overseas whose diction over the phone is indistinguishable from anyone else who shares their nationality. You would only know their skin color if they were sitting in front of you face to face. In the United States, that is not the reality.  Students come here from Africa where their only classroom is a dirt yard underneath a tree, and yet they are able to succeed in our educational and university system where native born students struggle. Here, we have spent trillions trying to improve educational outcomes and yet we still have failing school systems.  BLM wants us to divert billions away from law enforcement to community services. Some of it makes sense. Police are ill equipped to deal with mental health issues, which is a growing crisis in our country. But the idea that more money will truly solve the issues that plague our disenfranchised communities is worthy of skepticism.  I despise that this is constantly framed as a race issue. To me it is an American issue. We cannot continue to leave generations of young Americans behind and expect to be a functional and thriving country. I just do not think that BLM's strategies will solve anything other than further divide us. 

[TAHAWK]

5 hours ago, Navybone said:

There is debate on the actual “alliance” with anarchist.  There are elements on the extreme left AND right who are using the protest as an opportunity to fan the flames and creat riots.  BLM has a responsibility to try to distance themselves for sure and not get “co-mingled” with these groups.  But again,  BLM protest does not equal riots and violence.   
 

but to your original post that I responded to, BLM  not advocating turning over the government.  And to this point, BLMmis not advocating riots and violence, and destruction all over the country.  

"I said," Newsome told the host, "if this country doesn't give us what we want, then we will burn down this system and replace it. All right? And I could be speaking ... figuratively. I could be speaking literally. It's a matter of interpretation."

"I just want black liberation and black sovereignty, by any means necessary."

 

I just love that "by any means necessary."  Like they invented it.  Do they know why Malcolm X was murdered and by whom?

 

Having been sentenced to hang for "treason" against "our one true Republic of Ohio" by the "common law" "True Supreme Cpourt of Ohio,"  I take a dim view of "sovereign" types of any color or ethnicity. 

Given history and the other systems, I believe we are on the right track in the U.S. and oppose "burning down this system" in favor of the  Red Terror.  But that's just me and some tens or hundreds of millions of others. I would never get elected to City Council in Portland.  

Sixty years ago,  I thought I would never live to see a Black President, the collapse of the Soviet union, the end of Boy Scouts, or theoretically sane people calling for eliminating police departments, courts, prisons, and the entire concept of "crime."   Not to mention a statute of Frederick Douglass toppled by "woke" White college "virtue signalers," who don't even know who he was or what he did.   Yet here we are. 

I know the older are traditionally not always pleased with the younger.  I am an old fogey.  Plus, I taught history.  Ignorance seems to me to be a prime requirement for our young  "enlightened" revolutionaries.  Here's a clue from 1970.  Riots don't always end well for the rioters, and I don't mean just  your lower face, neck, and chest covered with your own mucus from CS gas, but really bad endings.

As Saddam learned, make credible enough threats and someone may take you up on your offer and "move forward."  

 

 

[TAHAWK]

Teen boy, 17, suspected of shooting 8-year-old girl in East Cleveland drive-by is arrested by US Marshals. She clings to life.

[David CO]

8 hours ago, TAHAWK said:

I would never get elected to City Council in Portland.  

Something to be truly proud of.  

[JoeBob]

15 hours ago, Navybone said:

 And to this point, BLMmis not advocating riots and violence, and destruction all over the country.  

"Black Lives Matter leader Hawk Newsome made terroristic threats against the United States on Wednesday. “If this country doesn’t give us what we want, then we will burn down the system and replace it,” the BLM leader declared. "  

I would find it difficult to loan this man my gas can.  And if I didn't watch him carefully as he moved on down the street, I would be shirking my duty to my neighbors.

[Troop75Eagle]

14 hours ago, TAHAWK said:

"I said," Newsome told the host, "if this country doesn't give us what we want, then we will burn down this system and replace it. All right? And I could be speaking ... figuratively. I could be speaking literally. It's a matter of interpretation."

"I just want black liberation and black sovereignty, by any means necessary."

 

I just love that "by any means necessary."  Like they invented it.  Do they know why Malcolm X was murdered and by whom?

 

Having been sentenced to hang for "treason" against "our one true Republic of Ohio" by the "common law" "True Supreme Cpourt of Ohio,"  I take a dim view of "sovereign" types of any color or ethnicity. 

Given history and the other systems, I believe we are on the right track in the U.S. and oppose "burning down this system" in favor of the  Red Terror.  But that's just me and some tens or hundreds of millions of others. I would never get elected to City Council in Portland.  

Sixty years ago,  I thought I would never live to see a Black President, the collapse of the Soviet union, the end of Boy Scouts, or theoretically sane people calling for eliminating police departments, courts, prisons, and the entire concept of "crime."   Not to mention a statute of Frederick Douglass toppled by "woke" White college "virtue signalers," who don't even know who he was or what he did.   Yet here we are. 

I know the older are traditionally not always pleased with the younger.  I am an old fogey.  Plus, I taught history.  Ignorance seems to me to be a prime requirement for our young  "enlightened" revolutionaries.  Here's a clue from 1970.  Riots don't always end well for the rioters, and I don't mean just  your lower face, neck, and chest covered with your own mucus from CS gas, but really bad endings.

As Saddam learned, make credible enough threats and someone may take you up on your offer and "move forward."  

 

 

 

14 hours ago, TAHAWK said:

"I said," Newsome told the host, "if this country doesn't give us what we want, then we will burn down this system and replace it. All right? And I could be speaking ... figuratively. I could be speaking literally. It's a matter of interpretation."

"I just want black liberation and black sovereignty, by any means necessary."

 

I just love that "by any means necessary."  Like they invented it.  Do they know why Malcolm X was murdered and by whom?

 

Having been sentenced to hang for "treason" against "our one true Republic of Ohio" by the "common law" "True Supreme Cpourt of Ohio,"  I take a dim view of "sovereign" types of any color or ethnicity. 

Given history and the other systems, I believe we are on the right track in the U.S. and oppose "burning down this system" in favor of the  Red Terror.  But that's just me and some tens or hundreds of millions of others. I would never get elected to City Council in Portland.  

Sixty years ago,  I thought I would never live to see a Black President, the collapse of the Soviet union, the end of Boy Scouts, or theoretically sane people calling for eliminating police departments, courts, prisons, and the entire concept of "crime."   Not to mention a statute of Frederick Douglass toppled by "woke" White college "virtue signalers," who don't even know who he was or what he did.   Yet here we are. 

I know the older are traditionally not always pleased with the younger.  I am an old fogey.  Plus, I taught history.  Ignorance seems to me to be a prime requirement for our young  "enlightened" revolutionaries.  Here's a clue from 1970.  Riots don't always end well for the rioters, and I don't mean just  your lower face, neck, and chest covered with your own mucus from CS gas, but really bad endings.

As Saddam learned, make credible enough threats and someone may take you up on your offer and "move forward."  

 

 

You post good information, but it won’t make any difference I suspect.  I’ve seen a lot of his replies over time and the terms apologist and provocateur come to mind.  Naturally, he would disagree. But I’m not the first to make this observation.

It’s a pity. There are many people that care about scouting, it’s traditions, it’s mission and it’s people.  There are so many people dedicated to making one on one differences in the lives of others of all social classes and ethnicities.  I and those I know are among those who are many of those traits.  Yet, because we disdain chaos and destruction that groups like BLM have come to symbolize and through their actions, even if not at first, we are branded narrow minded and with the mark of Cain.  It’s no wonder scouts is being torn asunder.  
 

 

 

Edited July 18, 2020 by Troop75Eagle
Clarification

[TAHAWK]

SEATTLE

Published 3 hours ago

Seattle rioters seen damaging, looting stores; police say fire sparked at precinct, officer hospitalized

 

ANTIFA AND SBLM RIOTERS AT WORK TRASHING AND LOOTING SEATTLE.  

NOW: Antifa Militants and Black Lives Matter rioters are breaking into Amazon Go Downtown Seattle. This protest has turned into a riot. #SeattleProtest #AntifaDomesticTerrorists #seattleriots #BlackLivesMatter

 

Photos available.  Police precinct building attacked with Molotov Cocktail - like device.  Fire extinguished.  

City government "leaders" and Congress members from Washington continue to demand that federal law enforcement, protecting federal buildings, leave Seattle so as to stop  interfering with mobs of rioters and looters.

In further news, Flat Earth Society denounces systemically inaccurate maps and "world globes" as a public health crisis.

[DuctTape]

On 7/18/2020 at 1:09 AM, TAHAWK said:

Not to mention a statute of Frederick Douglass toppled by "woke" White college "virtue signalers," who don't even know who he was or what he did.   

 

 

If you have evidence of the perpetrators I am certain law enforcement would like that information. But as of now the identity and the motive are unknown. Just as some have speculated it is as you describe, others have speculated it is a retaliation to the taking down of confederate statues. It is also possible that it is motive non-specific just plain vandalism. Point is we don't know. And as additional information this statue was replaced in 2018 as it was damaged by vandals two years ago. 

[MattR]

@TAHAWK, why are you shouting? I can read regular sized font more easily than the large font.

[Troop75Eagle]

2 hours ago, MattR said:

@TAHAWK, why are you shouting? I can read regular sized font more easily than the large font.

Could be cut and paste

[TAHAWK]

I merely did a cut and paste on the headline.  As teacher and Scout trainer, I was taught that larger type is easier to read.  Apparently, situations alter cases.  

Here; "Seattle rioters seen damaging, looting stores; police say fire sparked at precinct, officer hospitalized [.]"

Edited July 20, 2020 by TAHAWK

[TAHAWK]

4 hours ago, DuctTape said:

If you have evidence of the perpetrators I am certain law enforcement would like that information. But as of now the identity and the motive are unknown. Just as some have speculated it is as you describe, others have speculated it is a retaliation to the taking down of confederate statues. It is also possible that it is motive non-specific just plain vandalism. Point is we don't know. And as additional information this statue was replaced in 2018 as it was damaged by vandals two years ago. 

It is likely "plain vandalism."  Much of what happened in Cleveland recently was "plain vandalism," "Plain riot," and "Plain looting."  I have no evidence whatsoever, not having visited Rochester in many years.  I am happy to see that the statue is back up.  

[DuctTape]

2 hours ago, TAHAWK said:

It is likely "plain vandalism."  Much of what happened in Cleveland recently was "plain vandalism," "Plain riot," and "Plain looting."  I have no evidence whatsoever, not having visited Rochester in many years.  I am happy to see that the statue is back up.  

I apologize for my miscommunication, the recent vandalism has not been repaired yet AFAIK. Apparently it was targeted back in 2018 as well.

[TAHAWK]

"ROCHESTER, N.Y. 'July 17, 2020] - At the site where escaped, enslaved people once boarded ships to make their way to Canada and freedom, the present met the past on Thursday — with hopes that the future will be impacted.

A new statue of abolitionist Frederick Douglass was erected at the Kelsey's Landing site at Maplewood Park in Rochester, the location where Douglass, Harriet Tubman and others shuttled former slaves who had navigated the Underground Railroad en route to Canada. This statue replaced one that was toppled over on July 5. [2020]."

[Troop75Eagle]

On 7/18/2020 at 1:01 AM, yknot said:

Is it being disenfranchised or is it an opposition to everything that is part of Western culture, which the BLM website actually states?  I have colleagues from overseas whose diction over the phone is indistinguishable from anyone else who shares their nationality. You would only know their skin color if they were sitting in front of you face to face. In the United States, that is not the reality.  Students come here from Africa where their only classroom is a dirt yard underneath a tree, and yet they are able to succeed in our educational and university system where native born students struggle. Here, we have spent trillions trying to improve educational outcomes and yet we still have failing school systems.  BLM wants us to divert billions away from law enforcement to community services. Some of it makes sense. Police are ill equipped to deal with mental health issues, which is a growing crisis in our country. But the idea that more money will truly solve the issues that plague our disenfranchised communities is worthy of skepticism.  I despise that this is constantly framed as a race issue. To me it is an American issue. We cannot continue to leave generations of young Americans behind and expect to be a functional and thriving country. I just do not think that BLM's strategies will solve anything other than further divide us. 

 

Embracing long established Scouting tradition, working one on one with individuals and groups to bring friendship and change and desiring social stability do not equal bigotry.  Being called Narrow minded certainly smacks of that.  Having the opinion that the BLM organization has become a type of malignancy that is metastasizing into something that is very unhealthy for ALL us not narrow minded or bigotry.  
 

An Organization might start with a just or worthy cause, but they can morph into something that delegitimizes itself based on actions, statements and patterns.  In recent years, any statements of caution, concern, alarm or opposition to groups that have different ideas (just basic ideas) are met with hysterics and brands of bigotry being hurled by social groups.  Any dissent is somehow an existential threat to their collective whole that cannot even be permitted to be voiced without swift and immediate opposition.  Rabble rousing Groups can play that game for a while, but they gain no credibility and after a while, they are just laughed at and ignored.  They torpedo the very people they claimed to help and thoroughly alienate the vast majority of citizens.  They certainly do not set good examples for scouts except as an illustration of what not to do and how chaos is not the best guide. In this limited application, they do prove useful.