Civil Protest, Policing, Moving Forward

[Troop75Eagle]

3 hours ago, SSScout said:

""Show mw what a man makes with his hands that I may know his heart" = Amish adage =

We are what we do, or don't do.  

No, I am NOT going to mention a fictional bi-pedal being......  

Couple of other quotes can go with that..

Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a men's character, give him power -A. Lincoln

and from recent popular culture:

Give us common folk one taste of power, we're like the lion who tasted man. Nothing is ever so sweet again-from Game of thrones.

As I understand it, these quotes, especially the latter,?is why we have the institutions we have.  The French Revolution, the great terror and fear of the mob were foremost on our founders minds.  This is one reason all these upheavals and casting down of the men who created the nation is so distressing. The people doing it apparently are do tunnel visioned and hell bent on scouring any validity of the past that there is no thought given or regarded to what the Reasonable alternatives were then, let alone the future.  

 

[HashTagScouts]

6 minutes ago, Troop75Eagle said:

Couple of other quotes can go with that..

Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a men's character, give him power -A. Lincoln

 

 

Not that your overall point isn't valid, but to be clear this quote has often been attributed to Abraham Lincoln but it was never actually said by him.  Robert Ingersoll said it about Lincoln.

[InquisitiveScouter]

8 minutes ago, Troop75Eagle said:

The people doing it apparently are do tunnel visioned and hell bent on scouring any validity of the past that there is no thought given or regarded to what the Reasonable alternatives were then, let alone the future.  

Now you know why the term "mindless rabble" exists

[cocomax]

They are putting up statues of  Vladimir Lenin.

CHAZ changed their name to CHOP to reflect their desire to start CHOPing off the heads of their enemies.

 

 

[Troop75Eagle]

8 minutes ago, HashTagScouts said:

Not that your overall point isn't valid, but to be clear this quote has often been attributed to Abraham Lincoln but it was never actually said by him.  Robert Ingersoll said it about Lincoln.

I realized that there is always question about authenticity or origins.  Even if it was a fictional construct, all quotes spring from the mind and carry their own weight. That was my objective.  Same dispute arose of the quote “There is a sucker born every minute.” I’d heard it was Barnum, which would be appropriate, but it may not be so.  As long as quotes survive, their effect is what matters.

[Troop75Eagle]

10 minutes ago, cocomax said:

They are putting up statues of  Vladimir Lenin.

CHAZ changed their name to CHOP to reflect their desire to start CHOPing off the heads of their enemies.

 

 

That’s all?  Whew!  At first I thought you were going to say They were putting up statues of Thomas Payne, John Stuart Mill, Voltaire or some of those other crazy thinkers from the Age of Enlightenment and reason.  Then where would we be! 

[Eagle1993]

26 minutes ago, cocomax said:

They are putting up statues of  Vladimir Lenin.

CHAZ changed their name to CHOP to reflect their desire to start CHOPing off the heads of their enemies.

 

 

Did they just put up the Lenin status, or are you talking about this one (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_Lenin_(Seattle)) that was put up in the mid 1990s.  

I had to look it up, but it appears CHOP stands for Capital Hill Occupied Protest.  Not sure if it also means CHOP heads of their enemies and how many heads they have actually literally chopped off … you may have more info about that.  I have no idea why Seattle doesn't shut that down … seems like it has gotten completely out of control.

[5thGenTexan]

New Lenin statue.  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53123947

[Troop75Eagle]

46 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

Did they just put up the Lenin status, or are you talking about this one (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_Lenin_(Seattle)) that was put up in the mid 1990s.  

I had to look it up, but it appears CHOP stands for Capital Hill Occupied Protest.  Not sure if it also means CHOP heads of their enemies and how many heads they have actually literally chopped off … you may have more info about that.  I have no idea why Seattle doesn't shut that down … seems like it has gotten completely out of control.

I’ve recently, (last year) read bizarre mindsets in Seattle.  Some of the assertions are that the legislature and urban population is so out of control that part of the state wanted to break away and merge with Idaho. It’s probably old news just like north, central and south California or Texas.  The out of control part comes from the progressive agenda of the legislature and social initiatives.  I apologize for not being able to find the article I read on these left of left initiatives but I wasn’t anticipating needing a citation in June 2020.  
 

progressive ideas are fine and good.  But sometimes there seem to be no adults around.   All you seem to hear are jubilant big kids throwing tax payer money at idea after idea, passing changes in regulations and laws without really even trying to understand the complex short, medium and long term impacts.  All you hear is ‘Whoeeee!! This looks fun!  Let’s try it too!!!’

[cocomax]

Here is a page that you will find a video from CHAZ/CHOP, talking about chopping heads and the French Revolution, they see this as the start of a Revolution.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2020/06/15/chopped-seattle-autonomous-zone-mob-fondly-recall-french-revolutions-guillotine-for-dissenters-n2570649 

[69RoadRunner]

Part of the difficulty of removing the Lenin statue is that it's on private property and isn't that some lovely irony.

A couple of people were murdered in CHAZ/CHOP by people with guns. They also established a wall to keep out undesirable people and there's some more irony for ya.

In Harpers Ferry, WV, the mob defaced the statue of John Brown, showing incredible ignorance.

[Eagle1993]

20 hours ago, TAHAWK said:

while ignoring the several orders of magnitude greater rates of civilian-on-civilian homicides, typically of like-on-like. 

I've seen this comment repeated by many (especially on Facebook).  You may be talking about the Antifa protestors, which could be true, but this does not apply to the Black lives protestors.  Who is ignoring the other homicides?  Many of the protestors are from inner city churches who also march after murders.  Others run or work with non profits who are working with youth in the inner city (from Boys & Girls clubs to many others).    I question people who think that few in the community are not attempting to help.  I have personally donated time and money to organizations in the inner city near me and see that people are not ignoring the problem.  

I think anyone in this thread who are against the police reform  and would rather help community organizations helping to reduce civilian-on-civilian homicides could donate their time/money to many worthy causes.  You could also help a Troop or Cub Scout pack start up (or Trail Life unit).   For example, here is a list of organizations out of Chicago.  Most cities have many different organizations working on violence prevention.

https://abc7chicago.com/stop-the-violence-resources-chicago-in/3894299/

I would ask … when you look at this list, how could you claim that they are "... ignoring the several orders of magnitude greater rates of civilian-on-civilian homicides...".  Most if not all of those organizations' primary focus has nothing to do with police violence.  When I see this type of comment, it is as ignorant as saying all NASCAR fans are racist since a noose was found in Bubba Wallace's garage.

[TAHAWK]

5 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

I've seen this comment repeated by many (especially on Facebook).  You may be talking about the Antifa protestors, which could be true, but this does not apply to the Black lives protestors.  Who is ignoring the other homicides? 

The media.  Oh there may be one headline, but thereafter crickets.  No political hay to be made out of hundreds of kids shooting hundreds of kids.  Civilian shootings in NYC up 400% over same period last year.   On May 25th in neighboring Claveland, the murder capital of our state, a 17 year old refugee from the Cngo was shot to death whenn stopped at a light (on the way from soccer practice)  and dumped in the road by a guy fleeing form murdering a 31-year-old Black male.  No coverage in the last 26 days.  Just not "news."

Many of the protestors are from inner city churches who also march after murders.  Others run or work with non profits who are working with youth in the inner city (from Boys & Girls clubs to many others).    I question people who think that few in the community are not attempting to help.  I have personally donated time and money to organizations in the inner city near me and see that people are not ignoring the problem.  

OK.  Sounds right.  The relatives morn, but not as important politically  as one multiple felon shot in Atlanta after he turns and fires a device at  the cop which the same prosecutor called a "deadly weapon" when cops used it on "students."  See, it all depends.  Cops use it= "deadly".  Fleeing felon uses it on cop after already feloniously  attacking cops = not deadly.  That's what we called "selective enforcement" when representing Blacks similarly prosecuted in the day. 

 

The felon was arrested in Ohio after fleeing Georgia to avoid prosecution for a violent felony.  He has convictions for battery against children. In Georgia, being intexicated while in control of an operable motor vehicle is "drunk driving."  He preferred to attack two cops, giving one a concussion, and threaten the other with - lets just call it a "weapin" - to an arrest that had implications for his parolee status .  The heroic prosecutor is facing multiple counts of theft in office.  

I think anyone in this thread who are against the police reform  and would rather help community organizations helping to reduce civilian-on-civilian homicides could donate their time/money to many worthy causes.  You could also help a Troop or Cub Scout pack start up (or Trail Life unit).   For example, here is a list of organizations out of Chicago.  Most cities have many different organizations working on violence prevention.

I am all for police reform.  I am also in favor of reforming something so thousands of civilians are not murdered annually by other civilians.  I regard you as just as dead when mowed down in a random drive-by as when shot by a cop.   Meanwhile in Minneapolis:   11 people shot, 1 person dead in overnight shooting spree."  What was that slogan about lives?

5 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

https://abc7chicago.com/stop-the-violence-resources-chicago-in/3894299/

I would ask … when you look at this list, how could you claim that they are "... ignoring the several orders of magnitude greater rates of civilian-on-civilian homicides...".  Most if not all of those organizations' primary focus has nothing to do with police violence.  When I see this type of comment, it is as ignorant as saying all NASCAR fans are racist since a noose was found in Bubba Wallace's garage.

If you think the "focus" regarding violence is on civilians shooting civilians, I emphatically disagree.  Shall we review the top headlines on shootings?  I'm game.

 

"Ignorant"?  Swell,  Eagle.  Did you march with Doctor King.  I did.   It was an adrenaline moment.  In 1971,  I had my only suit torn apart and my nose bloodied keeping the Young American's For Freedom - real right wing nut jobs - from riding William Kunstler out of town on a rail when he spoke in Columbus at the Ohio State Law school raising money so the Black Panthers could buy firearms.  They also had tar and feathers for Kunsler.    I didn't like him much, but I liked freedom of speech.

 

 

[TAHAWK]

Wisconsin officials condemn violence after chaos grips Capitol, state senator shares video of alleged attack on him by rioters.

State Sen. Tim Carpenter, D-Milwaukee, was walking to the Capitol building late Tuesday when he encountered the protesters and began recording them. Carpenter said that he was “assaulted and beat up” by eight to 10 people as he took the video. He shared the 11-second footage on Twitter: "I took this pic- it got me assaulted & beat up. Punched/kicked in the head, neck, ribs. Maybe concussion, socked in left eye is little blurry, sore neck & ribs. 8-10 people attacked me. Innocent people are going to get killed. Capitol locked- stuck in office.Stop violence nowPlz!"

Wisconsin [Democtatic] Gov. Tony Evers activated the National Guard on Wednesday after protesters toppled two statues, vandalized buildings and a state senator was attacked outside the Capitol during a night of violence that erupted following daylong protests.

 

"106 shot, including slain 3-year-old boy, in violent Chicago Father’s Day weekend"

"Suspect in custody in fatal shooting of teens in South Chicago.  Jasean Francis and Charles Riley were fatally shot June 20 in the 7900 block of South Luella Avenue, authorities said."

"Teen boy suspected of shooting 8-year-old girl in East Cleveland in 'drive-by.'"

 

Baltimore Police: Seven people shot, two fatally in 24-hour span.

"Homicides in the city [Baltimore] continue to outpace last year’s record per-capita homicide rate. Prior to the fatal shooting Thursday morning, police reported a total of 142 homicides so far this year compared with 135 at the same time last year.

Non-fatal shootings are down in 2020. As of Thursday morning, there had been 256 in the city this year compared with 303 at the same point in 2019.

2019 ended with a total of 348 homicides, the fifth consecutive year with more than 300 murders."

 

Greater New York Black Lives Matter president Hawk Newsome joined "The Story" Wednesday to discuss the direction of the movement in the wake of George Floyd's death in police custody and the subsequent demonstrations across the country, many of which have sparked destruction and violence.

"You ... have said that violence is sometimes necessary in these situations," host Martha MacCallum told Newsome. "What exactly is it that you hope to achieve through violence?"

..,.

"I said," Newsome told the host, "if this country doesn't give us what we want, then we will burn down this system and replace it. All right? And I could be speaking ... figuratively. I could be speaking literally. It's a matter of interpretation."

 

Edited June 25, 2020 by TAHAWK

[scoutldr]

I will treat you as you treat me, hopefully with mutual respect, love and friendship.  When you resort to violence, looting, destruction and vandalism, you have lost me, and I no longer care what your cause is...you are a common criminal and no better than those you protest against.