Civil Protest, Policing, Moving Forward

[TAHAWK]

Indian tribes waged wars of annihilation against other tribes.

in turn, Europeans were quite happy to kill Indians.

In the U.S., especially in California, the myth of the "Yellow Peril" led labor, farmers, conservatives and some  "progressives" to public office and resulted in laws barring immigration, naturalization of immigrants, or ownership of land by immigrants.   This atmosphere of hate and fear led to concentration camps for most anyone with as much as a single Japanese-born  great grandparent with the onset of WW II.  E

The Aztecs routinely cut the living hearts from prisoners from other ethnic groups.

The Han peoples crossing to what we think of as "Japan" attempted to exterminate the aboriginal Ainu.

The Tartars enslaved or murdered millions of ethnic Ukrainians, Russians, and Moldavian, mostly Christian, in the 15th, 16th, and 17th centuries.

Genghis Khan - the destroyer of civilizations.

HItler/Nazis, Russia, Poland, Muslims and the Jews.

Albania and the gjakmarrja

Serbians and Muslims.

Turks and Armenians

Our single race seems to have a built-in fear and hatred of the "other.," defined by skin pigmentation, religion, class, distance, or ???

 

And then we have the problem of violence with no rationalization whatsoever - in the U.S., civilians murder fellow civilians by the thousands.  "85 shot, 24 fatally, over Chicago’s most violent weekend of 2020."  Of course, these dead are just background noise to the political narrative.  Some count in the public discourse, and some do not.  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 20, 2020 by TAHAWK

[InquisitiveScouter]

56 minutes ago, TAHAWK said:

problem of violence with no rationalization

All about wealth and/or power...which is why those two things always concentrate together...

Have wealth...get power

Have power...get wealth

Now, there are many who use either or both for good, but that is a relatively new phenomenon in history

[TAHAWK]

Throwing a rock through the window of some small business is about wealth and power?

Drive-by murders of fellow inhabitants of the "inner city"?  Children murdering children they do not know?

Hitting a 92-year-old woman in the face at random as you pass her on the sidewalk ?  The woman hit her head on a fire hydrant as she crashed to the sidewalk.   (Under New York's new "bail reform," the attacker was released OOR with an invitation to return to court in a few weeks.  He has 103 previous convictions, several for random violence against the elderly - like punching them in the face.  He may have mental problems.)

I do not propose a simple analysis or solution.  There is none.

 

 

[InquisitiveScouter]

17 minutes ago, TAHAWK said:

rock through the window

Yes, it is about feeling powerless, and seeing that store as someone else's wealth/power to be destroyed.  If I cannot join you in your prosperity, I will destroy yours to even the playing field.

 

19 minutes ago, TAHAWK said:

Drive-by murders of fellow inhabitants

Turf control to sell drugs...

 

19 minutes ago, TAHAWK said:

Hitting a 92-year-old woman in the face at random

I think you are right here...mental illness may be the issue

[Troop75Eagle]

3 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

All about wealth and/or power...which is why those two things always concentrate together...

Have wealth...get power

Have power...get wealth

Now, there are many who use either or both for good, but that is a relatively new phenomenon in history

Dont forget the in betweens...

Have wealth and power...hold onto it at all costs. 

Don't have wealth or power...get it at all costs

but I admit there are a lot of people who would be happy in between.

[Troop75Eagle]

3 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Yes, it is about feeling powerless, and seeing that store as someone else's wealth/power to be destroyed.  If I cannot join you in your prosperity, I will destroy yours to even the playing field.

 

Turf control to sell drugs...

 

I think you are right here...mental illness may be the issue

There are a lot of things always at work and always simmering.

First and foremost, there are people who love chaos and will actively do things or goad others into doing it..  That's fun for them. 

Then there are always the borderline personalities and unstable ones.  I blame the internet and television for setting some of them loose in shootings.  They are impressionable and feel empowered and I guess that's their chance for glory.  I know of no REASONABLE way to deal with that issue.  Such people have always been around and always will.  Media is so interconnected that its not going away and neither are means of self defense.  But chaos is currency for them.

Then there are the fools who go to demonstrations and let them get swept up, pushed to the front and nightsticked by police because the organizers lurk in the back stoking the flames.  Our teachers in my all boy's catholic school told us in high school never to go to demonstrations, especially ones that might be violent for that reason.  Mob psychology is real and you attend at your peril.

Then there are the opportunists and social robin hoods, giddy at the prospect of helping to redistribute goods and merchandise from 'donating' businesses.  This seems to bring out the most intense competitive spirit imaginable since no one wants to lose out on getting one new shoe out of the box and a bottle of cheap bourbon. 

Then there are the political agitators on and off scene who probably go high up in hidden circles. One of the better books I've read about such thins is called "The Phoenix Program" by Douglas Valentine. 

[InquisitiveScouter]

2 hours ago, Troop75Eagle said:

happy in between

Yes, happy in between😀

[InquisitiveScouter]

20 minutes ago, walk in the woods said:

mob won't be satisfied

Who controls the past, controls the future: who controls the present, controls the past… The mutability of the past is the central tenet of Ingsoc. Past events, it is argued, have no objective existence, but survive only in written records and in human memories. The past is whatever the records and the memories agree upon. And since the Party is in full control of all records, and in equally full control of the minds of its members, it follows that the past is whatever the Party chooses to make it.

Orwell, 1984

[Sentinel947]

1 hour ago, David CO said:

I don't anticipate the guillotine for myself or my friends, but a more symbolic decapitation is already occurring.  Statues of Father Serra (a Catholic saint) have been beheaded.  One was illegally pulled down by protestors as a part of the Juneteenth celebrations in San Francisco.  

From my point of view, these are celebrations of anti-Catholic bigotry.  But so long as acts of anti-Catholic bigotry are conducted under the cloak of Black Lives Matter and Juneteenth, they shall enjoy the protection and support of local officials, liberal journalists, and BSA.

There will always be people who will take advantage of crowds and chaos to further their objectives or settle scores. I don't think supporting Black People against injustices is contrary to being Catholic. Rather, I look at racial justice as an essential element of being Catholic and something we should push for. The BLM group has some positions as Catholics that we cannot support in good faith, but like Scouting, where the BSA is just one element, the "official" BLM group is only part of a broader movement for racial justice. Overall I support some of the goals of the movement, but I don't support every position or action they take. 

There have been activists in San Francisco and California generally targeting St. Sera for a while now. They've been trying to distort his life and actions into an example of white supremacy. If you watch this video, look at the racial composition of the crowd who pulled down the statue... mostly white people. https://abc7news.com/statues-torn-down-francis-scott-key-junipero-serra-golden-gate-park/6257760/. Large crowds in the park gave them the opportunity to do what they have always wanted to. So I'm not ready to pin this on Black Lives Matter or Juneteenth specifically. Especially since Father Sera likely never met a Black person in his life. There is a strain of thought on the extreme left that is a modern day form of Iconoclasm. Anybody who doesn't uphold their ideals cannot be part of the public square. I'd guess getting rid of the statue of St. Sera was something the leadership of San Francisco wanted to do anyways.  

From my understanding of history, Father Sera accidentally introduced European diseases that did significant damage to the Native population. Him spreading the faith, introducing European technology and practices and building the missions fundamentally changed Native Culture and lifestyles.  He's resented for this. But he also did the best he could to educate the Natives, and protect them from the abuses of the Spanish military. The missions he created are the foundations for most important California cities today. 

The way I see it, the California tribes would have been subjugated and dominated by the Spanish regardless. Father Sera's leadership in California made things better for the Natives than elsewhere in the Spanish empire. Would their communities have been better off without the Spanish? Probably. But that's not the reality we live in. 

[Oldscout448]

Anyone remember the ' shrieking girl " at Yale?  Or the madness at Evergreen Collage?  Or the riots at Berkley?   

We older folks just shook our heads and said " Just wait until they graduate and move into the real world, they're in for a real shock. Then they'll grow up." 

Well they graduated and turns out that WE are the ones who are shocked.  They haven't grown up, and the really terrifying thing is I don't think they are going to until its way to late.  

Some of the political leaders are obviously using the mob to further their own ends. But a mob is a dangerous thing. Ask Maximilian Robespierre.

Edited June 21, 2020 by Oldscout448

[Troop75Eagle]

I still am flabbergasted by the anti-Catholic  business.  Recent scandals are one thing, but this long history of anti-catholic sentiment really boggles my mind.  In the derp south I know it goes way back...a persistent source of shame among other ills in the south and I know Kennedy Their was hysterics about Kennedy being a cats paw of the Pope.  I guess, just like the resurgence of anti-semitism , I have just not been aware all these decades and for the most part I’ve lived in the south. I guess I’m an example of why clusters of like minded people in the same socioeconomic strata need to get out more. 

[Troop75Eagle]

Pulling down as many statues as they can lay hands on is unconscionable.  I bet these people do t even know who grant is, let alone what he did.  He was given a slave and then freed him. He came from an abolitionist family.  Jefferson?  Yeah, I understand the slavery part.  Without those enlightened men operating in the turmoil of their day, these mob groups and anarchists driving them seem not to have an alternate vision of what the results would have been otherwise.  
 

I suppose we have to go back to the time when we have to buy up property to make parks that are accessible but private to erect statues of people.  You get the good examples but the bad, but this scouring of culture is insane. 

[69RoadRunner]

No one born in the 1800s and back can meet the woke progressive standards of today's far left cultists.  There's no room for nuance or imperfect people who also did many good things. It doesn't mean you don't discuss the bad things, but you don't erase people like the USSR.

 

[Troop75Eagle]

30 minutes ago, 69RoadRunner said:

No one born in the 1800s and back can meet the woke progressive standards of today's far left cultists.  There's no room for nuance or imperfect people who also did many good things. It doesn't mean you don't discuss the bad things, but you don't erase people like the USSR.

 

One of the difficulties in the past and today seems to be that upheavals and revolutions really have ill defined objectives except to upend the system and recreate a new system, often with the same results.  It often ends up than anyone who represents or speaks against the new amorphous collective is suddenly an intolerable enemy of the state.  Communism and Stalinism were certainly that way.  
 

when I briefly taught inner city high school, and was a substitute teacher in many public schools, I tried to show the impact of language.  The Wannsee Protocols, Article 58 of the Soviet penal code for counter-revolutionary activity, night and fog, and several others.  I showed how language in determined the date of millions.  
 

Fanaticism, ignorance and bigotry from any quarter are lethal, especially combined with language in laws.  Anarchy and sweeping aside our institutions of government leave people do exposed.  These are lessons not known or ignored by these social chaos forces.  

[Kudu]

On 6/15/2020 at 11:57 PM, InquisitiveScouter said:

Agreed.  This is a perfect example to illustrate the term "virtue signaling"

I'm in favor of requiring Scouts to demonstrate virtue signaling, so long as it is done in Morse Code.