Recruit night reservations

[Bob White]

In all fairness, all we have form atcprfs at this point is an unproven accusation with no evidence and nothing more.

 

A Scout is loyal. Until I have some evidence that the committee has done something wrong I trust they did what's right for the boys. I understand and accept that not everyone is wired that way.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Eamonn]

OK,ATC

We need to hear from you.

I think that when you go to pay the fees you will only have to give Council the prorated fees and maybe the cost of the Pinewood derby car.

I will keep on thinking that way unless you tell me something else.

Eamonn.

[ATCprofesr]

Ok all, sorry for the extended delay, but I've been a bit busy dealing with a hurricane down here. I promise to respond with more details (as requested)by the end of the day. I believe that a few eyes will be opened by the conclusion of the next email. Thanks for your patience.

 

ATCprofesr

[ATCprofesr]

And the whirlwind continues...

 

See, this is exactly the type of debate that has been taking place around here for the past three years.

 

A few specifics:

-Our entire council recharters by 1/31 every year.

-Unfortunately, our council is "understaffed" and thus new subscriptions to Boys' Life are often times handled in a lacadasical manner. This causes our boys to not receive their new "gift" for at least 2-3 months - post payment.

-We hold our Pinewood Derby in March/April, every year. We make a specific point of discouraging the purchase of PWD kits until appx 3 weeks prior. Should the kids have kits in hand longer than this duration, parts and pieces end up missing and cause a great deal of strife for the parents.

-Our Pack only asks for the initial registration and insurance fees ($11 regardless of date of reg), ONE time. As long as the family maintains an active status with the Pack, the Pack assumes all further fees for the scout, IE:recharter, insurance, all badges and advancements. These funds come from the Pack budget.

-This Pack promotes "year-round" recruiting via monthly newspaper articles, school visits and flyers at no cost to ANY other entity.

-A cost breakdown of school recruit night was requested / demanded last year. The council flyers that were distributed to the various schools (by our Pack leadership) indicated a number of untruths that I found to be unacceptable for an organization committed to "Trustworthy..." morals. For example, the flyer indicates that the boys should come to recruit night, sign up and receive their "FREE" tickets to a sporting event. Keep in mind that the requested cost breakdown indicated "promotions" as a charge included in the $20 reg fee. This does not equate to a "free gift". This is just an example of the types of falsehoods that continue to take place here.

-When a cost breakdown was requested this year, I was advise that, because of my refusal to pay for certain items, last year, a justification of costs would not be distributed. UNACCEPTABLE!

-This year's registration fee is to include: 5 months reg fees, $1 insurance fee, 5 months Boys' Life, "free lunch box", "free PWD kit", a deceptive 10% discount on the purchase of an entire scout uniform - to be purchased only at a scout shop approximately 1 hour's drive from our community, and a "free pair of tickets" to a local MLB game.

 

Mr. White, I have had the priviledge of monitoring your postings in the past. Mostly as a quiet observer. I must admit that your loyalties appear to lie on behalf of the paid professionals and council actions. I do appreciate the limited amount of assistance we receive from these individuals, and empathize with the demands made on many DEs.

 

In short, I strongly disagree with the manner in which school recruit night is being handled. 4 years ago when our county closed the schools to BSA, this Pack personally initiated a rapport with, literally, a dozen schools. This was not a pathetic, cold telephone call. This was a personal walk-in, handshake and discussion. The way it should be done. As such, we take a great deal of pride in our program and constantly look for ways to improve. We consistantly recruit and RETAIN a total of 100+ scout families. We service six public and four private schools in the local community. We have run numerous district events. We have a strong reputation, and take great pride in setting standards. The time has come for some accountability in our council. I've come to a point where the "because I said so" approach of our "key 3" is insufficient. My intent is to OFFER two options to our prospective parents:

 

-Option 1: $20 to include the above mentioned items.

 

-Option 2: $11 standard Pack registration and insurance fees. (Pack submits prorated reg fees and insurance fees to council, and retains remainder in Pack account.)

 

I have been assured by our Key 3, that any registrations submitted without the mandatory $20 fee will not be accepted. This should be interesting.

 

Oh yeah, we DO make a point of sending each of our new recruits, as well as any visitors that just stop by our recruit night display, home with something in hand. No, not just a receipt, but a variety of tokens of scouting and our Pack. Again, these are Free of Charge, with no cost being incurred by anyone other than our Pack. And happily so.

 

A pleasant evening to all.

 

ATC

[Bob White]

What I have learned after many years ATCprofesr, is that all scouting professionals take training and too many volunteers do not.

 

Over all a higher percentage of professionals understand the volunteers job more than volunteers who take the time to understand the professional side. I have learned the council and district volunteers work hard to benefit all scouts while many unit volunteers do not look beyond there own front door. That is my experience and I have no doubt that it effects my view on matters such as this.

 

 

If the situation you describe is accurate there are some questions that need to be answered. If the district isn't answering your questions specifically then they are wrong. All will be happy to provide you a tool to fix this.

 

First lets look at a couple things.

If you take a full years registration ($10), add the cost of 5 months of BL ($5.40), a PWD car kit ($3.55), insurance ($1) and by the way most councils now pay that for the units through FOS), You come up to a total of $19.95. That is probably where the $20 fee comes from.

 

However if they are prorating the membership to just cover the end of this charter year then they need to account for the difference of $5.88. Now I am sure that is not being used as a fundraiser because they can do a lot of other things to raise far more than $5.88 per boy for the council. But you do deserve to now where it goes. Maybe it pays for the lunch box, maybe for some of the other gifts. But your original statement of it being used as a fundraiser is still unsubstantiated.

 

Here is what I would recommend. Have your committee chair, or better yet your CR (this really isn't your concern as a cubmaster) layout the dollars as I showed them to you on paper, and go see the District Commissioner and DE. ASK NICELY for an accounting of the missing $5.88. I am hopeful they will give a full accounting that will explain the cost. I am confident they will provide the information needed.

 

IF NOT, explain to them that unless a satisfactory accounting can be given then here is what the Pack will do. Applications and money for remainder of this charter period will be sent in on the new cubs. They can accept them or not, that is their choice. In January money will be send in, in accordance with the National BSA membership fees along with a signed charter. If the council wants the charter organization to continue using the program they need only accept the charter. See why you want the committee chair or charter rep to do this meeting instead of you?

 

I would then have they remind the DE that you can't do an FOS presentation at a pack that doesn't exist. All that is need is either A) an complete and satisfactory accounting of the $5.88 be made, or that $5.88 of the $20 fee be placed in the unit account at the service center for use in re-chartering in February.

 

Then have them smile politely, shake hands and leave. You will get the explanation you deserve one way or another. I am still confident they will get it simply by showing the math and asking how the balance is being used.

 

Eamonn, would this work in your opinion as well?

 

BW

 

[Twocubdad]

Just as a point of clarification, shouldn't the fees be as follows:

 

4 months registration $3.40 (I've got the chart right here)

4 months Boys Life 3.60

Insurance 1.00

PWD kit & box 3.50

Total $11.00

 

Why would the council collect next year's dues in advance? At recharter time wouldn't you have some boys rechartering and some not? I thought the purpose of the prorated dues was to have all memberships expire along with the unit's charter. I understand that some units -- mine included -- collect the recharter dues in Sept. and holds them until recharter. But this is simply to avoid two rounds of collections. Everyone still recharter at the same time.

 

Regarding the PWD kit: According to our DE, the car, the box (it's more of a pencil case just big enough for the car -- MY lunch won't fit in it ), and a "driver's license" is a package deal from national all for $3.50.

[Bob White]

The National BSA supply Division web site lists the QWD car at $3.55

 

If, as ATC writes, his recharter is the last day of January the he is chartering the new scouts for 5 months as you always count the month of registration as 1. So through January would be 5 months and not 4.

 

I think 5 issues of BL is a half year subscription, $5.40.

 

We agree on the $1 for insurance since that was the only actual cost breakout that was given us by ATC. Cost of insurance varies from council to council as it is not a national policy.

 

BW

[dsteele]

The good professor said this, and I just want to add a little clarification to this one small point in his posts. I can't address the other points becuase I don't have the answers:

 

"-Unfortunately, our council is "understaffed" and thus new subscriptions to Boys' Life are often times handled in a lacadasical manner. This causes our boys to not receive their new "gift" for at least 2-3 months - post payment."

 

I learned the hard way when I accidently held a Scout's application too long. Boy's Life subscriptions begin two months after the registration is sent in. It's a national thing. Take a look at your recharter papers next time you see them. You'll notice that the Boy's Life term begins and ends two months after the charter period does.

 

The council may be understaffed, but they're not the reason behind the lag.

 

Unc.

 

[Twocubdad]

My mistake, I though I read that ATC recharters in December. I'll spot you the nickel on the kit, but according to the chart I have 5 months of BL is $4.50.

 

What I'm trying to show is that instead of being within loose change of $20 we're talking about $6 or $7 per boy. In most councils that would add up to a significant amount of money.

[Bob White]

And I believe I outlined a plan for it to be valid or not once ATC has specific answers to specific questions. But at the moment we are both guessing at numbers and no one has the answers to make a determination that something is amiss. Lets allow ATC to get his CC or CR to go in and get some answers if he chooses to. While he is entitled to see the breakdown, the council and district are entitlted to the same respect that the unit volunteers are entitled to. Nothing will get attention more at recharter time then a potentially negative effect on unit counts or FOS, and nothing will build relationships faster than helping each other (the unit and the council) to find trust and support.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[acco40]

All of the Cub Packs that I have been affiliated with charged at registration for the remainder of the charter year (the vast majority of units rechartering in the January-March time frame) plus the next full year. So the cost was $10 plus a pro-rated $10 (long ago $7.00 plus a pro-rated $7.00). Boy's Life magazine was highly encouraged but not mandated. When I was a den leader, our pack usually gave out promotional items we either received "free" from the council or got very cheaply - pencils, zipper pulls, etc. What the boys liked and enjoyed were the fact that while their parents dealt with "grown-up stuff" (registration, fees, forms, etc.) I and either some other adults or more preferably older boys (Den Chiefs or other Boy Scouts) would teach the boys games, sing alongs or demonstrate a camp site set up. It doesn't have to cost much. One year, we simply brought along some ping-pong balls put four prospective recruits to a table, (far far away from parents!) put a ball in the middle of the table and the first boy to blow the ball off the opposite side of the table won! They loved it. That is what the boys want - attention and fun, not material items! In today's society, most get all the material possessions they want! They crave attention. Now it is hard for the national council to send out "attention" packages to all of the Cub units so they go with other promotional items.

[Cubmaster-Fred]

Irregardless of what anyone thinks, they cannot make you pay for anything other than the prorated registration for the period up to your recharter. This is directly from council registrar.

 

CMF

[Eamonn]

This "Game" Of Scouting works best when we don't have a "Them" and "Us".

Put very bluntly we are all in the same boat. We might be a Professional, one of them there District types or working with the youth in a unit.

The unit delivers the program to the youth, the District supports the unit and the Council supports the District.

So someone or some unit is unhappy about something. In this case the way School Sign up is being managed.

The unit has a COR. He or She has a standing invitation to attend the District Committee Meeting.Some Districts do allow him or her to send a representative in place of them if they are unable to make the meeting.

Every District Committee meeting that I have ever attended has had Membership as an agenda item. The goal of the District Membership Committee is to get as many youth members and other organizations that share the values of Scouting on board. As a rule a representative from the District Membership Committee sits on the Council Membership Committee, who reports to the Council Executive board. The District Chairman also sits on the Executive Board.

While it would be wrong of me to speak for other Districts or Councils. I do know that if a COR approached me and said he wanted an accounting of the $20.00 I would get it for him ASAP.

If he said that the pack that his organization charters would not be doing Sign up along the lines that the Council had mandated. I would have to agree with him. While life would be a lot easier if everyone was on the same page. We are in fact helping the organization that he represents enlarge the youth program of that organization.

While I am all for Boy's Life, it is not a requirement for membership. While the Pinewood Derby car is nice, again it is not a membership requirement.In fact if the Chartering Organization wanted to only charge the prorated fee to the BSA. There is nothing that could prevent them from doing so.

While I could not see the membership committee ever doing so, I suppose they could exclude the units that refused to follow the guide lines from the Council sponsored Sign Up activities. It is after all a Council event. Just as a Troop might camp at the Council owned camp site the same week end as a District Camporee and not pay the Camporee fee or join in any of the activities.

I really do think that with the current drive to recruit Cub Scouts, that no Council would do anything that might become a barrier to a little fellow joining. The "Missing" $5.88 or whatever the number is will show up as a legitimate cost for a real item or will make it's way back to the unit account.

As for items that were promised and were not delivered there does need to be some sort of investigation as to what happened.

I know a few years back we had Steelers Hats that were to go to the Lads that recruited friends somehow I ended up with the caps for one unit in the trunk of my car. I was to give them to the unit leader at a round table, but he wasn't there and a month past and then he wasn't there. I ended up giving them to him at a Blue and Gold in February. Some times things don't always work out. It isn't a case of anyone trying to be dishonest or doing anything underhand it just happens.

I do think that if ATC, sat down with them there District types they could shed some light on what is really going on.

As Bob White says no Council is going to go for $5.88 and put it's reputation on the line for such a puny amount. We all need to remember, that we are are the District and we are the Council. There are ways of finding out anything that you want to know, at times we do need to follow the right procedures and at times ask the right people.

Eamonn.