Recruit night reservations

[ATCprofesr]

So here's my question/discrepancy. Our local council has decided to augment our school recruiting night to include a "council fundraising effort". Long story short, every newly registered scout is REQUIRED to pay $20. This fee includes the prorated reg fee, $1 insurance fee, a "cute" (sarcasm) little lunch box, a pinewood derby kit and 5 months of Boys' Life mag.

 

Again, this fee is mandated. We have been told that there are no "ifs, ands or buts". Personally, I detest this approach and have fought this effort every year they (council) have proposed it. This event should be to promote Scouting and maximize our efforts to recruit new members.. not fundraise for Council.

 

One mitigating circumstance includes the fact that, although I appreciate Boys' Life magazine and its content, when my new registrants submit their subscription requests at our recruit night, it typically takes at least 3-4 months before they receive their first magazine, followed shortly by a request for subscription renewal. We have brought this difficulty to the attention of Council and Boys' Life. Each blames the other, and no progress is made.

 

I guess my question is, to what extent can councils create/enforce potentially exhorbinant registration fees, etc? What form of recourse, other than our refusing to collect/pay fees above and beyond the prorated reg fee & insurance fee.

 

Any suggestions, advice or other comments are greatly appreciated.

 

Frustrated Cubmaster

[Twocubdad]

When is your recharter date? If it is in September, the $20 is correct. If it's inside that, the dues and BL subscription should be pro-rated. We recharter in February and our dues for new boys are $5.10 and $5.40 for BL.

 

If in fact the $20 fee includes a net involuntary donation to the council and you object to it, then just don't play. Recruit your Scouts as you normally do, collect the proper fees and turn them in with their application. Of course you won't get the PWD kit, but you need to figure out if the new boys have been told they will be receiving them. I believe I heard our DE say the kits cost the council $3.50 each, so factor that in to the cost.

 

The lunchbox and PWD is a national promotion. When I first heard about it I didn't like the idea (acutally still don't). I think it detracts from our pack's PWD in the winter. Plus we're giving the boys the kits now with no opportunity to race until February. We had decided to hold the kits until we give them to all the boys in December. Unfortunately, all the promotional flyers and mailings mention receiving the ki and the boys are expecting them. We may encourage the new dens to hold their own mini-races if it becomes an issue.

[Bob White]

I agree if you rechater by the end of the year then $20 sounds right. The fee would also include Next years membership.

 

My question is, you said this was a fundraising. Where is the council making any money?(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Cubmaster-Fred]

Frustrated,

 

I might be missing something but as far as I know the only mandatory fee to be collected at signup time is the registration fee. If your charter is still in effect the new members are covered under the insurance without paying the $1.00.

 

At our signups we charge the $10.00 registration fee and that is all. We collect the insurance fee at recharter time along with the new registration fee. Boy's Life has never been nor should it ever be mandatory!!!! It should also not be mandatory for the boys to purchase a PWD car.

 

I think you should talk to someone about this situation because as far as I know it is wrong, and the situation should be corrected!!!!

 

CMF

[Bob White]

ATCpfsr and Cubmaster-Fred,

I think yo need to step back at look at this from a different view.

 

First, what do you feel the goal of a recruitment night is? What do you think the council and district committee think the goal is?

 

If it's a to be a fundraiser they have done it badly, because they do not make ANY money from registration fees, insurance premiums, or Boy's Life registration. The price of PWD cars is set my national and so they must sell it for a fixed price and get no more money than if they were purchased later from the scout store. And they are breaking even on the luchboxes. SO, this is not a fundraiser.

 

So why do this. Well if your Council is like ours we recharter in December. It can be difficult due to the Holidays, so at the suggestion of the packs we collect the balance of this year's registration, and all of next years. from the new families when they join in September. That way we do not go back to the new families 90-days later and ask for another registration fee. It's a courtesy, not a fundraiser.

 

As far as the PWD car and the gift lunch box, when you have a cub recruitment night and you take their money, what do YOU give them? A Handbook? A uniform? A handshake? A receipt?

 

Mostly likely they get paperwork at the most. How exciting for a 7-year-old boy! "Look, I just joined Cub Scouts and I got these cool forms!"

 

What is the council sending them away with...Stuff! A racing car kit, a lunch box they can take to school and show their friends they joined scouts, They will get a great magazine in a few weeks (in some cases before their first Pack meeting sad to say).

 

So what is your goal? I am hopeful it is the same as the council/district committee. To recruit AS MANY Cub Scouts as possible and to get them happy and excited about being scouts.

 

 

 

[Backpacker]

In this case I agree with the majority here that the fee is intolerable. I don't care if the council breaks even or profits on the extra junk or not, they do not have a right to increase fees for silly promo items. Most packs I know create their own welcome gifts for new scouts. Mandating a $20 extra fee is nothing but exortion by the council and is wrong, in spite of what Bob White thinks.(This message has been edited by Backpacker)

[Bob White]

Backpacker, What fees were increased?

 

Everything is being offered at the same price they always are. The membership committee has simply put them into a package to improve marketing and increase the effectiveness of the recruitment night.

 

Again, what is the goal of recruitment night? Is the goal to offer the lowest price, or to gain as many new members possible?

 

Is a 7-year-old going to be more excited about being handed a Pinewood Derby Car and Scout lunchbox the moment he joins, or is he going to walk away saying. "Wow! I was able to join for a pro-rated rate of only $2.50! AND I got this cool receipt!"

 

 

 

 

 

[Laurie]

I'm sorry, but I don't follow the fundraising of this. Having just worked on the budget and practically knowing the numbers by heart, council isn't making money on what is being charged. Has the council called it a fundraiser? The only thing I would object to is the Boys Life subscription, but that is because we promote it but treat it as optional. I love the idea of the boys getting things!

[Twocubdad]

I probably should have been clearer, but my purpose in asking about recharter dates was to get to the bottom of where the money is going. If you recharter in Feb. and dues are $5.10, BL is $5.40 and the PWD kit is $3.50, then where other $6.00 going? If just drops to the council's bottom line, I too would have a problem.

 

On the other hand if your unit recharters in May, your pro-rated dues are $7.65, BL is $8.10 and $3.50 for the car is close enough to $20 to not worry about making change. You can argue either side of it being fair to force boys to pay for their own gift or even requiring a BL subscription. But if you think the "profit" out of the PWD kit is a net to the council, I don't think you have much of a case.

 

I hope ATC will repost and clarify where the money is going.

[Eamonn]

The main goal of any recruiting is to get more youth into our programs.

Sure I know that sounds very simplistic. But we are not talking rocket science.

As with most things in life there is the good news and the bad news.

The good news is that every little fellow that joins is joining the most successful youth organization in the world.

The bad news is that there is no free ride. Some where along the line someone has to fork over a few hard earned bucks. These few hard earned bucks are the best investment that a parent can make in their son.

I'm not sure how things work in other peoples back yard? Here in our area we only ever ask a parent to fork over money for registration and re-registration one time. After the little guy is a member of the greatest youth organization in the world, all these fees are taken from the unit budget.

We go out of our way to get the word out and get this little Lad along with a parent to come and sign up. The Lad is excited, keen and eager. He wants to do stuff. If the person in charge of getting the paperwork done has a long face and is apologetic about collecting the few hard earned bucks, he or she is sending the wrong message. His time would be far better spent at home watching Fear Factor on the box.

As a Council we ask all units to collect the full $10.00 fee. When the unit comes to turn in the paperwork, they pay the prorated fee. Our Cub Scout rechartering is done in February. Boy's Life is up to the parent or the unit. During my term as a Cubmaster Boy's Life was a budgeted item and every Cub Scout received it. When a unit turned in the paperwork and Boy's Life was required, the unit was charged the prorated amount.

Getting the word out is not cheap. Before that little Lad and his parent arrive at the sign up location, all the schools have received flyer's which the Council produced and somehow managed to get into each school. We run newspaper ads. These are very expensive. There are commercials on the TV,while these are donated the true cost if we were to pay for them in our area would be over $50,000.00. We pay for Billboards. Each and every First Grade boy received a DVD. In our small Council this is costing $3,000.00.

Each school will have some enthusiastic person go in and do a boy talk. If there isn't a volunteer then this falls on a professional. There can be a lot of miles covered traveling from one School to the next and a lot of gas used. Recruiting is not cheap!!

We have not as yet tried the Pinewood Derby idea. I think that it is wonderful.

Then there is the $20.00!! As a parent I am happy to fork over a $20.00 bill. I don't want to mess around with someone trying to make change and all that hoopla. Just give me the form and I will fill in the details and gladly hand over my hard earned $20.00.

Eamonn.

[Twocubdad]

The issue here is not whether we try to add sizzle to Roundup and make it appealing for the boys or not. It isn't a question of whether or not this costs money. The question is who pays for it and how.

 

Just for the sake of argument, and since ATC hasn't reposted with a breakdown, let's say that the powers that be at the council decided the council needs the money and makes an above-board decision to create a $6 local registration fee that every pays, then fine. But be honest about it and be prepared to justify the added cost to those paying it.

 

Or even if they make an economic decision that adding the cost of the kits to the fee and giving the boys the cars will yield a net increase registrations, I'm still okay with that.

 

But if they are looking at a registration costing $14 and saying to themselves "hey, most folks are happy to fork over $20 for Scouts. We can round this up, keep $6 for the council and no one will be the wiser," that's dishonest.

 

But those are just three guesses. We haven't heard what the real situation is.

[Bob White]

What kind of a either/or is that Twocub. Either they created a fake fee or they just chose to add on to the real ones and keep the difference..

 

Good lord how bogus. There is absolutely no evidence that either was done, and you completely ignore the other alternative, that the $20 covers the cost of Boys life, insurance, PWD car and the prorated membership fee.

 

Lets get some facts before we make accusations.

 

Geez!

BW(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Twocubdad]

"When is your recharter date? If it is in September, the $20 is correct."

 

Since those were the very first words I wrote in this thread I saw no reason to repeat it. I hardly "completely ignored" it. Besides, I thought you did a good job of covering the options in which the council is infallible.

[Bob White]

These are fellow volunteers being criticized with absolutely no evidence is it not?

[Twocubdad]

We don't know what the evidence is one way or another. But you don't mind dismissing the opinions and/or information provided by fellow volunteer ATCprofesr.

 

And when I preface my comments with "For the sake of argument..." and "Those are three guesses..." hardly constitutes criticism of those involved.