InquisitiveScouter Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 Unable to view the opinion piece...no WaPo subscription. Since the letter was broadcast, I have had conversations with experienced local Scouters who see the BSA's letter as (their words) "pandering", "bandwagon", "a PR stunt", "an attempt to remain relevant", "inflammatory", etc. Although most understand the intentions behind the letter, there is general sentiment that BSA should have simply reinforced existing parts of the program which apply. Most also agree this will probably be the end of the DRP, or BSA risks another label of hypocrisy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troop75Eagle Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 I notice it was subscription only too. I don’t buy into it for a variety of reasons not least because I suspect that the scouts themselves everywhere are not acting in a racist manner. That is more a curse of the adults. I have no evidence either way to back my feeling up, but from an observation standpoint, I read of youth 18 and younger being more pro-active and accommodating in traditionally decisive matters. If I’m wrong, so be it and I’ll gladly (but sadly) accept the reality. If my hunch is correct, the differences that may exist are perhaps regional and based more on traditional housing patterns and racial population densities. there are other factors too. It’s no secret that comfort levels exist among minorities insofar with what groups of people in which they choose to affiliate. I saw that discussed in law school. That is a reality that is not so much emphasized by active or subtle rescind as it is simple choice of group identity. That reality, to the degree it is true, is no fault of scouts and should not be perceived as such. current politics does not do a good job of comparisons and demographics. If you have a neighborhood that was mixed and not historically separated, the kids already have a huge choice of activities with school and sporting events or clubs. Many of their peers might well choose to engage in those where activities offer a more community experience in things they like. With demographic ratios, that may well not leave a significant number of potential scouts from those communities. This competition among activities, comfort level and a desire to be among ones peers is NOT the fault of scouting but a simple reality. One can advertise and push for recruitment all you want but against these forces, which are difficult to measure, scouting - already facing declining numbers-would have an even more difficult time of things. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David CO Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 10 minutes ago, Troop75Eagle said: I don’t buy into it for a variety of reasons not least because I suspect that the scouts themselves everywhere are not acting in a racist manner. That is more a curse of the adults. I have no evidence either way to back my feeling up, but from an observation standpoint, I read of youth 18 and younger being more pro-active and accommodating in traditionally decisive matters. If I’m wrong, so be it and I’ll gladly (but sadly) accept the reality. There are some pretty tough penalties at school for racist behavior. Kids are good at conforming to the policies, whether they agree with them or not. Many do not. When they don't, they mostly keep their mouths shut. I agree, from an observational standpoint, that kids appear to be more accepting of the official policies than the adults. I think this is an illusion. I think it simply reflects how well the system is doing in muzzling the kids who have opposing opinions. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troop75Eagle Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 1 hour ago, David CO said: There are some pretty tough penalties at school for racist behavior. Kids are good at conforming to the policies, whether they agree with them or not. Many do not. When they don't, they mostly keep their mouths shut. I agree, from an observational standpoint, that kids appear to be more accepting of the official policies than the adults. I think this is an illusion. I think it simply reflects how well the system is doing in muzzling the kids who have opposing opinions. I'll have to say I'm a little surprised the kids don't follow it. I know kids can be ugly and I've been told that the sexual dis-inhibition has reached all the way down to middle school. That is really shocking to me, but 40+ years is enough time for a lot of things to change in the interim. I suppose that its just naivete on my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jameson76 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 3 hours ago, ALongWalk said: Adding this to the conversation: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/why-im-skeptical-of-the-boy-scouts-new-inclusion-initiatives/2020/06/19/9f4da7a8-b26a-11ea-8758-bfd1d045525a_story.html The writer is a former scouter and has a bi-racial son who earned Eagle. At the end of the day, if our movement is to thrive we have to help people to not be skeptical of the BSA’s desire to be inclusive. That really comes down to each of us and our individual actions. An interesting anecdotal article. Sorry for what happened in his experience. From that one experience he decides to then paint with a very very broad brush Too many involved in the BSA are Trump supporters, bullish on his foreign and economic policies, silent when it comes to his stoking of racial divisions. So now we see the real reason for his article. Not an honest comment on BSA and it's policies, but a soapbox to criticize the President. And he has every right to, but if you are going to do that own that criticism and be straightforward. Then he again makes a very very broad statement or assumption Racism seems to be at the heart of scout leadership because racism is at the heart of America. I’m encouraged by the BSA’s change of direction. Still, I can’t help thinking that if scouting really were about “character and leadership,” as the BSA said in its earlier, inadequate statement, the organization would have done something about the racism within its ranks a long, long time ago. That is a very damning statement and one that is not backed up by any actual data or realism. That is like going to a chain restaurant and having a bad experience and claiming that all 3,000 locations are bad due to that one sampling. Writer needs to be honest. Yes he seems to have had a bad experience in one troop. However if you assume bad intentions and look for the worst everywhere, you will likely find it. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troop75Eagle Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 thanks for the review. Thats the trouble with selective news. One or two stories is not indicative of much, but like many things, negative news travels best. If you recall Jack in the Box e-coli cases many years ago where people died, I still won't eat there. People looking for the slightest excuse to bolster a position will certainly gleefully use whatever comes their way but one would hope there is a conditional statement of a tiny instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David CO Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 2 hours ago, Jameson76 said: Too many involved in the BSA are Trump supporters, bullish on his foreign and economic policies, silent when it comes to his stoking of racial divisions. So now we see the real reason for his article. Not an honest comment on BSA and it's policies, but a soapbox to criticize the President. And he has every right to, but if you are going to do that own that criticism and be straightforward. At least he is being honest. It makes one wonder exactly how many "Trump supporters" is too many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JoeBob Posted June 20, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 20, 2020 " I have thought for some time now that the roots of racism in our country lie in the fundamental inability of white people to see black people as human in the same way they see themselves." No. The concept that my many black co-workers, a couple of black good friends, and my black GP might not be human has never entered my mind. (Oh, I forgot that my daughters boyfriend is from Liberia, so I guess that he is considered black; even though his English is crisper than my own.) But why should I waste my time protesting my racist label? I am a Caucasian who refuses to genuflect at the BLM altar, so I am obviously a racist. Do I think that blacks are not human? Absolutely not, but I pride myself on having an open mind; so, keep talking... 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALongWalk Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 I saw this posted on a scouting Facebook page: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Eastman?fbclid=IwAR3fyvSFgGmlx5zYeyhqv0ALDB8KJRkjsIT7fVLABCLoqfmHoPgxYHlyQYk If true, it is pretty cool that a Native American played such a crucial role creating the BSA. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walk in the woods Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 15 hours ago, David CO said: At least he is being honest. It makes one wonder exactly how many "Trump supporters" is too many. Now that the BSA has fully prostrated itself before the postmodern mob, even 1 will be too many. I'm sure the guillotines are being sharpened as I type. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitiveScouter Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 8 minutes ago, walk in the woods said: guillotines are being sharpened Fortunately, much of the population has the means to resist a new Reign of Terror. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David CO Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 (edited) 28 minutes ago, walk in the woods said: Now that the BSA has fully prostrated itself before the postmodern mob, even 1 will be too many. I'm sure the guillotines are being sharpened as I type. I don't anticipate the guillotine for myself or my friends, but a more symbolic decapitation is already occurring. Statues of Father Serra (a Catholic saint) have been beheaded. One was illegally pulled down by protestors as a part of the Juneteenth celebrations in San Francisco. From my point of view, these are celebrations of anti-Catholic bigotry. But so long as acts of anti-Catholic bigotry are conducted under the cloak of Black Lives Matter and Juneteenth, they shall enjoy the protection and support of local officials, liberal journalists, and BSA. Edited June 21, 2020 by David CO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walk in the woods Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 12 minutes ago, David CO said: I don't anticipate the guillotine for myself or my friends, but a more symbolic decapitation is already occurring. Statues of Father Serra (a Catholic saint) have been beheaded. One was illegally pulled down by protestors as a part of the Juneteenth celebrations in San Francisco. From my point of view, these are celebrations of anti-Catholic bigotry. But so long as acts of anti-Catholic bigotry are conducted under the cloak of Black Lives Matter and Juneteenth, they shall enjoy the protection and support of local officials, liberal journalists, and BSA. I saw that. Also statues of Washington and Grant. The mob won't be satisfied with anything less than the full destruction of all that has come before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberSchiff Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 On 6/16/2020 at 8:06 AM, RememberSchiff said: P.S. I wonder if Dan Beard Council will return $2.5M from the Marge Schott Foundation and drain Lake Marge Schott? 06/24/20 Update: Local Boy Scouts organization discussing status of Marge Schott's name on building, lake Dan Beard Council CEO Andy Zahn told The Enquirer Tuesday the Boy Scouts abhor racism and are deciding what to do about the controversial former Cincinnati Reds owner's name on a lake at Camp Friedlander and The Marge Schott Scout Achievement Center in Evendale. "The Dan Beard Council is actively listening to our Scouting families and the community, and we are discussing the right path forward with our board of directors," Zahn said in an emailed statement. Zahn did not offer more details or a timeline. Other Greater Cincinnati organizations have dropped "Schott's name due to her record of racist and bigoted remarks". More at source: https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2020/06/24/marge-schott-dan-beard-council-boy-scouts-discuss-name/3248829001/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberSchiff Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 Update 6/24/20 : Regarding the National Executive Committee statement in OP., a clarifying FAQ was released. https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2020/06/24/answering-common-questions-about-the-bsas-commitment-to-act-against-racial-injustice/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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