BSA's Commitment to Act Against Racial Injustice

[RememberSchiff]

15 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

This letter, written by some young scouters, was sent to BSA national committee. Letter was dated June 11.    Many of the points brought up in the letter was included in the BSA statement, but not all.  

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zi8cnUESF5vKBjv91l5FVunzRYmkuCGO/view

I was not aware of the source "young scouters"  but according to NYT https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/17/us/boy-scouts-diversity-inclusion-eagle.html 

The Boy Scouts had initially put out a much broader statement on June 3, with no mention of race, and focusing instead on teaching scouts “to become the best versions of themselves.

I was shocked and deeply disappointed that their original statement made no reference to the experiences of black people, the pain that the black community was feeling,” said Dwayne Fontenette Jr., 29, an Eagle Scout who also has volunteered as a scout leader.

Mr. Fontenette then helped write a letter last week, signed by more than 500 scouts, calling for the Boy Scouts to take a stronger stance against “anti-black racism.” He said in an interview that he was “moved” by the organization’s statement this week.

“It represented for me the first time in my scouting history where I feel like the organization saw me, and valued me completely,” he said.

Mr. Fontenette, who is black, said the Boy Scouts still had an “extraordinary amount of work to do to create an environment in which black people have equal access and equal outcomes in scouting, and an experience in which we are made to feel as we belong.

[InquisitiveScouter]

@Liz

As a 26 year veteran of the armed forces, I spent more of my career supporting humanitarian missions around the world than I did supporting combat operations under the orders of my civilian governments, which you (we) elected.

Your comment shows an incredible level of ignorance, and is downright unscoutlike.  I recommend you delete it yourself before the moderators do.

[InquisitiveScouter]

3 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

people have equal access and equal outcome

Equal access I agree with..."equal outcomes" is an ill-conceived idea.

The unalienable right of Pursuit of Happiness is not a guarantee of happiness...

There be dragons...

[RememberSchiff]

From back in the day, a simpler time...

 

Edited June 18, 2020 by RememberSchiff

[InquisitiveScouter]

2 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

From back in the day,

 

That will be disposed of down the Memory Hole soon...

[David CO]

33 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

Mr. Fontenette then helped write a letter last week, signed by more than 500 scouts

I am sure that conservative scout leaders could likewise pen a letter and have it signed by thousands of scouts.  What would that prove, except that we can sink as low as the political opposition?

[RememberSchiff]

7 minutes ago, David CO said:

I am sure that conservative scout leaders could likewise pen a letter and have it signed by thousands of scouts.  What would that prove, except that we can sink as low as the political opposition?

Ah but would we have equal access and equal outcome?

“It represented for me the first time in my scouting history where I feel like the organization saw me, and valued me completely,” he said.

David remember when that first happened to you?  Me neither.

My $0.02,

Edited June 18, 2020 by RememberSchiff

[David CO]

1 minute ago, RememberSchiff said:

Ah but would we have an equal access and equal outcome?

“It represented for me the first time in my scouting history where I feel like the organization saw me, and valued me completely,” he said.

David remember when that first happened to you?  Me neither.

My $0.02,

No, but I can recall the first time in my scouting history when I first felt that BSA had become anti-Catholic, denigrated my faith, and devalued my religious beliefs completely.

 

[Eagledad]

I believe with all my heart the Law and Oath encapsulate everything to be the best kind of person the world needs. I also believe that self righteousness blocks the path to that idealistic mark. My experience is that people spend too much time trying to be the smartest person in the room instead of modeling the virtuous tone of humble patience. 

Seems the culture doesn't have the humility for scouting anymore.

Barry

[Troop75Eagle]

8 hours ago, Liz said:

It also shouldn't be a huge surprise that "patriotism and civic pride and service" don't have to equate with "military and law enforcement." 

Civic pride and duty are main reasons that I have my kids in Scouting. It teaches them to work together to make their community a better place.

Killing brown people at home and abroad is NOT a reason I have my kids in Scouting. 

When I was in scouting, the very idea you just mentioned would neither have been suggested, imagined or tolerated.  Military and law enforcement were structure, order and fun were honored tools for boys that resonated and still do.   The people I knew and know were all very civic minded and almost all progressive.  Many are professors. Your correlation and perhaps even veiled suggestion that killing, dividing and conquering were motivators is galling. 
 

most military is support, meaning cooks, nurses, doctors, truck drivers and so forth.  Only a small part are direct combat.  Many who come back from combat are scarred and traumatized for life and fight because they have to.  Police used to be very different and took Knick’s and scuffs more than they do now.  A lot of that modern issue comes from training. 
 

it seems you have a real bone to pick and have lumped anyone who endeavors you serve in either capacity as desires to kill and oppressor exterminate and are in a paramilitary training program.  You also directly smear all those who wear uniform as killers and desirous to kill.  As I recall, perils in both world wars signed up to stop tyrants seeking to control the rest of the world.  We sent whites and blacks and Asians to kill Germans, Austrians and a few other groups in WW1 and German and Japanese and Italians in WW2.  They were largely whites outside of the Japanese who were busy destroying the Chinese and Subjecting other Asian countries. It’s true in Korea and Vietnam we fought Asians but soldiers guerre forced to go.  
 

Police have a mixed history but I’m not sure what vision you have of a country without police dedicated to uphold the safety of their communities and institutions of government.  I said nothing about training killers.  You may loathe the institutions but when they are needed at home or requested abroad, they generally acquit themselves well.  
 

why you would say that Scouts and military and law enforcement are so bad as a mix is beyond comprehension.  If I wanted a training group to do as you state, then I would send them to a reactionary group like the minute men, Michigan militia or others who behave that way in their training.  

Your answer really astonishes me and confirms what I have begun to suspect.  The mind division in scouts is so divided and hostile that even personal experiences and perspectives cannot be expressed without intolerance, condemnation and categorical branding.  You confirm the fact that scouting as we know it will be sorely pressed to survive as a cohesive group.  
 

you are a teacher, and I would have expected far more than I have read.

[Navybone]

2 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

@Liz

As a 26 year veteran of the armed forces, I spent more of my career supporting humanitarian missions around the world than I did supporting combat operations under the orders of my civilian governments, which you (we) elected.

Your comment shows an incredible level of ignorance, and is downright unscoutlike.  I recommend you delete it yourself before the moderators do.

I too am a military member with as many years in the service (and still serving) and completely disagree with you.   The US is decidedly not a military state.   There are reasons that military wear (camp pants) are frowned on to be worn at account events.   BSA is not about training youth for military, but for developing leadership, resilience, confidence, and Overall contribute to society as adults.   While this is much like that military offers, BSA is not a military organization.   What Liz says is fine, and I have concern with your lack of tolerance with people who disagree with you.   

[InquisitiveScouter]

4 minutes ago, Navybone said:

What Liz says is fine, and I have concern with your lack of tolerance with people who disagree with you.   

Navybone,

Thanks for swearing the oath and putting on the uniform.

I never indicated the BSA was a training ground for military or police.

My intolerance was for Liz's comment indicating military and police are "killing brown people at home and abroad."  That is a blatant, broad-brushed accusation of racism in the military and police.  I will not tolerate that kind of false accusation.

And as you know, and should be in your experience, the military is the most egalitarian institution in our society.  Of all organizations I have been involved with in my life, the US military is the purest meritocracy I (and you?) have experienced.

[Eagledad]

I find myself looking back a lot in this discussion. My Dad and uncle were heavily in scouting before and during WWII. I was a scout during and after the Vietnam War. My sons were scouts during the Gulf wars. Only once through all my many many discussions on the subject of scouting did the idea of Scouting being a para-military organization ever come up, and that was with a liberal friend who was inquiring of my SM expectations of him if he volunteered as an ASM. He was never a scout as a youth, so he had no idea what to expect, but wearing the uniform was a concern. We generally tented together, so I got to listen to him reflect on his scouting experiences the next three years as a scout leader. He found the goals of the program were noble and was very proud to wear the BSA uniform during that experience. 

I haven't a clue where the para-military thing came from. Not a clue. However, I was also quite offended by the racist comment of killing brown people home and abroad. It seems to me, the wrong people are trying to fix the problem. 

Barry

[Navybone]

22 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

And as you know, and should be in your experience, the military is the most egalitarian institution in our society.  Of all organizations I have been involved with in my life, the US military is the purest meritocracy I (and you?) have experienced.

it is a meritocracy.  However, as every service chief has clearly stated, there is still racism in the military, and an order or regulation cannot erase it.  And much like the statement and purpose of the BSA statement, there is much that needs to be done, and that everyone need to take a look, have a conversation with those experiencing racism to better understand it, and be brave confront it when you see it.  there is no room for intolerance - be it due to color of skin, religion or political belief.

[InquisitiveScouter]

Just now, Navybone said:

there is no room for intolerance

So, you tolerate everything except intolerance?