BSA's Commitment to Act Against Racial Injustice

[RememberSchiff]

There are at least two topic threads here. One relating to the OP/BSA and the other a much larger view of civil disobedience/justice.

While trying to maintain discussion flow , I moved posts of the latter subject area to this new topic. 

~ RS

Edited June 26, 2020 by RememberSchiff

[RememberSchiff]

On 6/15/2020 at 9:06 PM, CynicalScouter said:

...These are our next steps but certainly not our last.

 A step, rather a metric, that I would like to see is to recover past corporate donors who left citing BSA discrimination.

My $0.02,

[David CO]

2 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

 A step, rather a metric, that I would like to see is to recover past corporate donors who left citing BSA discrimination.

My $0.02,

That would depend on what type of "discrimination" they cited.  I personally can't recall any corporate donors who left citing racial discrimination.  

 

[RememberSchiff]

Commitment against racial injustice...perhaps leadership by example, consider the rest of the story of the 2007 armed robbery of a Boy Scout Christmas tree lot.

https://www.sent-trib.com/news/man-forms-unlikely-friendship-with-robber-12-years-later/article_da6b0f40-ed55-11e9-bb90-f3ae42f51121.html

[qwazse]

Quote

He also gained new values, no longer seeking the approval of his friends over everything else.

The toughest challenge I've had to give to some SPLs: "Are you going to follow your friends? Or lead them?"

[MattR]

Nice story but it would seem better to have gotten involved in that kid's life before he became friends with the other two that were arrested.

The real story is US incarceration rates are high. We all know that. The fact that the BSA can't get something like Boy Power to work suggests something the BSA should work on rather than put out a new MB.

[David CO]

5 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

Commitment against racial injustice...perhaps leadership by example, consider the rest of the story of the 2007 armed robbery of a Boy Scout Christmas tree lot.

https://www.sent-trib.com/news/man-forms-unlikely-friendship-with-robber-12-years-later/article_da6b0f40-ed55-11e9-bb90-f3ae42f51121.html

What does your story have to do with racial injustice?  You should have started a new thread.

[David CO]

1 hour ago, MattR said:

 

The real story is US incarceration rates are high. 

 

The real story is crime rates are high.  We should have more sympathy for the victims of crime, and less for the perpetrators.

[John-in-KC]

On 6/24/2020 at 10:30 AM, RememberSchiff said:

06/24/20 Update:  Local Boy Scouts organization discussing status of Marge Schott's name on building, lake

Dan Beard Council CEO Andy Zahn told The Enquirer Tuesday the Boy Scouts abhor racism and are deciding what to do about the controversial former Cincinnati Reds owner's name on a lake at Camp Friedlander and The Marge Schott Scout Achievement Center in Evendale.

"The Dan Beard Council is actively listening to our Scouting families and the community, and we are discussing the right path forward with our board of directors," Zahn said in an emailed statement. Zahn did not offer more details or a timeline.

Other Greater Cincinnati organizations have dropped "Schott's name due to her record of racist and bigoted remarks". 

More at source:

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2020/06/24/marge-schott-dan-beard-council-boy-scouts-discuss-name/3248829001/

My two cents:  If she donated the property and built the building, and the Council opts to rename them, then the Council owes her heirs the money back, with interest equal to the annual rates of inflation. 
 

It’s the right thing to do. 

[MattR]

48 minutes ago, David CO said:

The real story is crime rates are high.  We should have more sympathy for the victims of crime, and less for the perpetrators.

By less sympathy for the perpetrators do you mean harsher sentencing? And what is an example of more sympathy for the victims?

[DeaconLance]

47 minutes ago, John-in-KC said:

My two cents:  If she donated the property and built the building, and the Council opts to rename them, then the Council owes her heirs the money back, with interest equal to the annual rates of inflation. 
 

It’s the right thing to do. 

Why?  Was it a condition of the donation?  If not, goodbye Schott.  Lots of people donate to Scouts without having stuff named after them.

[InquisitiveScouter]

59 minutes ago, MattR said:

what is an example of more sympathy for the victims

A swifter justice system...

"Justice delayed is justice denied"  

[Sentinel947]

1 hour ago, John-in-KC said:

My two cents:  If she donated the property and built the building, and the Council opts to rename them, then the Council owes her heirs the money back, with interest equal to the annual rates of inflation. 
 

It’s the right thing to do. 

I live in Dan Beard Council. Her Foundation would be the ones to decide. They said in the article you cited,  said her Foundation supports organizations removing her name.

"The Marge and Charles J. Schott Foundation released a statement Tuesday, saying they support the organizations who remove her name. 

"While we cannot make excuses for the rhetoric made by Mrs. Schott decades ago, we can ask you to learn from Mrs. Schott’s mistakes as well as her great love for Cincinnati."

They didn't object to the University of Cincinnati (my alma mater!)  removing her name from the baseball stadium there. I don't think they'll object if things in the Council are renamed. If the Board does decide to rename things, I still would like to see them recognize her contributions in some way. While she had some very nasty views, and said some nasty things about Black people, she was a very generous donor to Dan Beard Council. A generation of youth have benefited from her charitable giving, and will continue to do so.

 https://www.fox19.com/2020/06/23/trustees-discuss-marge-schott-name-change-uc-baseball-stadium/#:~:text=Marge%20Schott%20Stadium%20was%20named,name%20from%20UC's%20baseball%20stadium.

Also in the broader context of whether it's right or not.... who's going around asking for gift's back,  unless there is some sort of contract that requires it? If I give a friend of mine a gift, or give an organization money, and we have a falling out, since when do I get to demand they return those gifts to me? That's not a gift, that's a loan.

Edited July 3, 2020 by Sentinel947

[yknot]

Walt Disney was a racist and said and sponsored many racist things. 

[Troop75Eagle]

If people looked at all culture of all kinds throughout history and banned it on the issue of the day, we would have nothing left.  Humans are sight oriented and use that and every sense to distinguish friend from foe, who one likes and doesn’t like, who deserves derision for conduct, Humor, satire, music and everything else.  There is no guarantee against hurt feelings.  There is no guarantee or right to be liked, desired, appreciated, respected, or even tolerated by others in a human level.  Human being seem to increasingly forget its fun to laugh at differences, draw fascination and intrigue from differences, and not be forced to have ideas and public expressions purged because one group doesn’t like having their feelings hurt.  
 

There are changing levels of acceptance over time but the idea that past cultures and ideas should somehow be purged and wiped out because it no longer fits does a terrible disservice to those who fought to live, love, laugh and experience life on their own terms over time.  It’s an attempt to erase history.  That is precisely what it is.  Take it out of the public view, libraries, archives, etc., make it taboo, and hope it vanishes.  The Nazis, Communists, Red Revolution and religious movements have done a marvelous job of this.  It’s no wonder people push back.