New National Fees Announced.

[David CO]

20 minutes ago, PACAN said:

The continued comparison the "other activities" that middle class families spend their money on is a tired argument. 

Yes it is.  This argument is used so often that it makes one wonder if BSA is making a declaration that scouting is now an activity for the middle class.  Low income families not wanted.  It sure sounds like it to me.

My father grew up during the Great Depression.  He told me that middle class boys joined Boy Scouts of America and working class boys joined Lone Scouts of America.  As a boy, he peddled vegetables off a street cart in Chicago.  He and his pals were working kids.  They joined Lone Scouts.

If BSA intends to make their program an expensive middle class activity, they should split off Lone Scouting into its own organization again so that blue-collar working-class families can have a scouting program too.  

[Eagle94-A1]

6 hours ago, David CO said:

True.  Many can't afford it already.  The skyrocketing unemployment rate isn't going to make it any easier.  I don't know who these guys are trying to fool when they tell us that scouting families won't have any problem with the increase.

Trust me, I know.

[DuctTape]

14 minutes ago, David CO said:

 

My father grew up during the Great Depression.  He told me that middle class boys joined Boy Scouts of America and working class boys joined Lone Scouts of America.  As a boy, he peddled vegetables off a street cart in Chicago.  He and his pals were working kids.  They joined Lone Scouts.

 

I have never heard that distinction before. I thought Lone Scouts was developed for those scouts who were unable to find a local troop due to geographical isolation. My grandfather grew up dirt poor in Maine  (his father was peddler too) he was involved in a Boy Scout troop in his town.  I wonder if your dad's experience was a local phenomenon.

14 minutes ago, David CO said:

 

My father grew up during the Great Depression.  He told me that middle class boys joined Boy Scouts of America and working class boys joined Lone Scouts of America.  As a boy, he peddled vegetables off a street cart in Chicago.  He and his pals were working kids.  They joined Lone Scouts.

 

I have never heard that distinction before. I thought Lone Scouts was developed for those scouts who were unable to find a local troop due to geographical isolation. My grandfather grew up dirt poor in Maine  (his father was peddler too) he was involved in a Boy Scout troop in his town.  I wonder if your dad's experience was a local phenomenon.

14 minutes ago, David CO said:

 

My father grew up during the Great Depression.  He told me that middle class boys joined Boy Scouts of America and working class boys joined Lone Scouts of America.  As a boy, he peddled vegetables off a street cart in Chicago.  He and his pals were working kids.  They joined Lone Scouts.

 

I have never heard that distinction before. I thought Lone Scouts was developed for those scouts who were unable to find a local troop due to geographical isolation. My grandfather grew up dirt poor in Maine  (his father was peddler too) he was involved in a Boy Scout troop in his town.  I wonder if your dad's experience was a local phenomenon.

[carebear3895]

I hate my job 

Edited May 30, 2020 by carebear3895

[carebear3895]

13 hours ago, Oldscout448 said:

Or a discount designed to encourage new sign ups.

It's not a discount. 

The $25 new-registration fee is on top of the membership fee. 

[5thGenTexan]

Supposedly from National Communications... "I can't verify that personally"

[David CO]

1 hour ago, DuctTape said:

I have never heard that distinction before. I thought Lone Scouts was developed for those scouts who were unable to find a local troop due to geographical isolation. My grandfather grew up dirt poor in Maine  (his father was peddler too) he was involved in a Boy Scout troop in his town.  I wonder if your dad's experience was a local phenomenon.

Lone Scouts started out as a separate organization from BSA.  It was founded by Chicago newspaper publisher W. D. Boyce, who had earlier founded BSA, as a working-class alternative to BSA.  Boyce saw a need for a scouting program for the newspaper boys who delivered his publications.  Though it started as a program for urban working-class boys, it soon became popular with the young, rural, farm workers as well.

In those days, the biggest industry in Chicago was the stockyards.  Chicago was the "hog butcher" to the world.  Many of the largest meat packing plants were in Chicago.  There was a lot of social interaction between the urban and rural boys when the farmers brought their produce to market.  Lone Scouting was huge in the Midwest.  I don't know how well it went over in Maine.  

Edited May 30, 2020 by David CO

[Eagle94-A1]

33 minutes ago, 5thGenTexan said:

Supposedly from National Communications... "I can't verify that personally"

 

So what will the fee be for 18 to 20 year old ASSISTANT Scoutmasters?

[Sentinel947]

26 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

So what will the fee be for 18 to 20 year old ASSISTANT Scoutmasters?

This communication makes it seem like they've backed off eliminating programming for Adults 18-20. "Participants in Kindergarten through age 20." 

[David CO]

3 minutes ago, Sentinel947 said:

This communication makes it seem like they've backed off eliminating programming for Adults 18-20. "Participants in Kindergarten through age 20." 

There should be a special rate for adults who behave like they are in kindergarten.  $$$

[Chisos]

27 minutes ago, Sentinel947 said:

This communication makes it seem like they've backed off eliminating programming for Adults 18-20. "Participants in Kindergarten through age 20." 

I'd expect (maybe?) the 18-20 year old participants would "wind down" over a couple of years, rather than just get cut off.  Like, currently registered Venturers/Sea Scouts/etc. (or, maybe those age 16+) could continue as program participants until age 21 but new registrants would 'age out" at age 18.

[skeptic]

15 hours ago, Cburkhardt said:

The out-of-pocket annual cost to fully participate in our troop (including registrations, summer camp, 8 weekend campouts, patches and just about everything else but high adventure) is around $1,000.  This is paid through dues, activity fees and fundraising, which in our troop is an annual fundraising event.  We give a troop FOS gift to the council.  So this increase will be a piddling amount against our overall budget.  New members will pay the $25 without issue.  It is the cost of doing business, and is mainly our insurance.  If the council would prefer a fee instead of FOS, that is fine with us.  They need and deserve the support and we will provide support either way.  You have a few auto accidents and your auto insurance increases.  Same here.

Scouting is still “dirt cheap” in comparison to all of the other options for families out there.  There are a lot of middle class families out there that spend many multiples of our annual costs on just a couple of “travel team”, kid pageant, cheerleader camps, unneeded prestige bicycles or gym shoes.  I have no problem with this.

And then we have the cost of a visit to a major amusement park where you spend half your time standing in hot lines and buying over-priced food, as well as the entrance and parking.  I admittedly no longer have the patience or focus to make a chart of say a dozen various youth activities and their average annual costs.  But, as you have noted, Scouting is "still" overall a bargain.  Much of the yelling is partly due to simply the "fact" that the organization has always been a comparative bargain.  And the uniform, while nice to have and hopefully most will at some point, is not a requirement.  Many units in other places only use basic colored shorts and shirts and a neckerchief.  IF we really think that our basic program is viable and important, we will find a way to deal and also to work on positive feedback whenever we can.

[5thGenTexan]

Here is your documented source from National commenting...

 

[yknot]

1 hour ago, skeptic said:

And then we have the cost of a visit to a major amusement park where you spend half your time standing in hot lines and buying over-priced food, as well as the entrance and parking.  I admittedly no longer have the patience or focus to make a chart of say a dozen various youth activities and their average annual costs.  But, as you have noted, Scouting is "still" overall a bargain.  Much of the yelling is partly due to simply the "fact" that the organization has always been a comparative bargain.  And the uniform, while nice to have and hopefully most will at some point, is not a requirement.  Many units in other places only use basic colored shorts and shirts and a neckerchief.  IF we really think that our basic program is viable and important, we will find a way to deal and also to work on positive feedback whenever we can.

Scouts is not a particular bargain. It's just as expensive as any activity today, even when you try and do it cheaply. Between me and my kids, we've done just about every youth activity there is and the cost is dependent more on how involved you want to be and at what level. Scouts has got to stop with this inane argument because it's a naval lint exercise used to prevent addressing some of the issues why families are increasingly turning away from scouting. Any parent with young kids involved in multiple things today knows it's not part of the family decision making equation. The local value in scouting is more linked to units that have terrific leadership and access to good local resources and facilities. This is true of any youth activity. Wherever you have a cadre of great scout leaders, great sports coaches, or great mentors combined with safe local places to meet and play and learn, you will find a thriving unit of whatever kind of youth activity. The problem with scouts is that these kinds of units are more time intensive to develop and harder to replicate than other youth activities. Hopefully the bankruptcy related reorganization will help improve some of these issues. 

 

[carebear3895]

52 minutes ago, 5thGenTexan said:

Here is your documented source from National commenting...

 

where did you see this on? And if it's coming from Effie, it's true. She is in charge of ALL communications