Rover Scouts Return?

[MattR]

5 hours ago, Kudu said:

and the year that the BSA decided to replace  Hillcourt's "Real" Patrol Method with a "Nine Leadership Skills" version of White Stag http://www.inquiry.net/leadership/9skills.htm .  

Well what do you know, that's the perfect description of why I'm not a fan of BSA training. I keep telling scouts if they really knew the material they were trying to teach it would be really easy to both teach it and easier to come up with fun events to use it.

I went and read the BPSA Pathfinder manual. In all honesty I really liked it. It stops at First Class. Very little describe, discuss, explain. Lots of practical do. Some MB's, like first aid, require retesting every year, just like the adults. Senior proficiency badges. And the capstone req for First Class is to go on a 14 mile backpacking trip or 30 mile bike trip on your own or with another scout that goes overnight.

No eagle, but hey, no eagle! The scouts would have to figure out what they want to do. That and it would be a lot cheaper.

 

 

[Kudu]

8 hours ago, MattR said:

I went and read the BPSA Pathfinder manual. In all honesty I really liked it. It stops at First Class. Very little describe, discuss, explain. Lots of practical do. Some MB's, like first aid, require retesting every year, just like the adults. Senior proficiency badges. And the capstone req for First Class is to go on a 14 mile backpacking trip or 30 mile bike trip on your own or with another scout that goes overnight.

No eagle, but hey, no eagle! The scouts would have to figure out what they want to do. That and it would be a lot cheaper.

Thank you!  I wrote the first edition of the Pathfinder Handbook for the Texas-based BPSA-USA about four years before BPSA-US was established.   

BPSA-USA was based on the 1965 PO&R (Policy, Organization, and Rules), which accounts for those "Senior Proficiency Badges," which were not a part of Baden-Powell's  program when he was still alive. 

BPSA-US,  on the other hand,  is based on the 1938 PO&R, which was the very last version of the Scouting program that Baden-Powell himself approved.  See: http://www.inquiry.net/traditional/por/index.htm

Baden-Powell's equivalent to Eagle was King's Scout, which I renamed "George Washington's Scout."  Like all badges in B-P's program, it is a measure of a Scout's current proficiency so (if you have the pdf version of the Pathfinder Handbook),  you can find those requirements under "Additional Proficiency Badges."  "Current Proficiency" means that all of the qualifying badges must be renewed every 12-18 months, so there is no equivalent to "Once an Eagle, Always an Eagle," in Baden-Powell's version of Scouting.  

BPSA-US has voted to cancel my term "George Washington's Scout," because the guy was a slave owner.  To their credit (so far as I know), BPSA Rovers currently have no plans to milkshake my face with quick-drying cement for my role in the promotion of slavery.  😎

[RememberSchiff]

"The scout must re-pass all of his or her qualifying badges once between twelve and eighteen months of being awarded the badge, except in the cases of Ambulance Man, Senior Guide and Senior Signaler, which must be re-passed annually...

Should the scout fail any re-examination, they should cease to wear the George Washington’s Scout badge." ...3rd edition 2013 page 89

https://www.bpsa-us.org/pdf/BPSA-US-Pathfinder-Handbook.pdf

I like it!  ~RS

Edited June 10, 2020 by RememberSchiff

[Angus]

6 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

"The scout must re-pass all of his or her qualifying badges once between twelve and eighteen months of being awarded the badge, except in the cases of Ambulance Man, Senior Guide and Senior Signaler, which must be re-passed annually...

Should the scout fail any re-examination, they should cease to wear the George Washington’s Scout badge." ...3rd edition 2013 page 89

https://www.bpsa-us.org/pdf/BPSA-US-Pathfinder-Handbook.pdf

I like it!  ~RS

Agreed!  We need this in the BSA.   Too many scouts dont even know their knots.

[Eagle94-A1]

14 hours ago, Angus said:

Agreed!  We need this in the BSA.   Too many scouts dont even know their knots.

IMHO worse still, first aid. I had a Life Scout with First Aid MB, not able to do basic T-2-1 first aid skills. When I asked him about why he couldn't do the skills, He told me "I took that class my first summer camp, I don't remember that stuff."

[dkurtenbach]

"One-and-done" rank requirements and their partner in crime, the "no re-testing" rule, are so ingrained in our advancement-centered Scout culture that they will never be changed.  The only way to keep Scouts current in their skills is through practice and competition. 

Now, suppose an adult Rovering organization were to catch on, with BPSA-like "skill proficiency" badges that required annual or bi-annual re-testing.  The pride of the Scouter/Rover adults in their skills, and the cool badges to accompany them, could inspire (what else?) more new non-advancement awards that youth could earn - and re-earn on a regular basis.  

As I see it, the real value of a Rover organization would be the ability of adults to shed their leader responsibilities for a little while to gather together and be Scouts, to practice patrol method and focus on outdoor skill development, and along the way train new adult leaders by example and hands-on practice and war stories around a campfire.

[Angus]

20 hours ago, dkurtenbach said:

"One-and-done" rank requirements and their partner in crime, the "no re-testing" rule, are so ingrained in our advancement-centered Scout culture that they will never be changed.  The only way to keep Scouts current in their skills is through practice and competition. 

Now, suppose an adult Rovering organization were to catch on, with BPSA-like "skill proficiency" badges that required annual or bi-annual re-testing.  The pride of the Scouter/Rover adults in their skills, and the cool badges to accompany them, could inspire (what else?) more new non-advancement awards that youth could earn - and re-earn on a regular basis.  

As I see it, the real value of a Rover organization would be the ability of adults to shed their leader responsibilities for a little while to gather together and be Scouts, to practice patrol method and focus on outdoor skill development, and along the way train new adult leaders by example and hands-on practice and war stories around a campfire.

Well said!  You have summarized it much better than I could have.  I cannot agree more, especially with your last paragraph.  So, how do convince national to bring back the Rovers?

[dkurtenbach]

9 hours ago, Angus said:

So, how do convince national to bring back the Rovers?

BSA National?  In the words of Lem Siddons (Follow Me, Boys!): "They'll gum everything up." 

It needs to start on the local level, with some older Scouter friends getting together -- without youth -- to show each other outdoor skills, take hikes, and sit around campfires enjoying each others' company.  Then they invite some of the younger Scouters in.  It's not long before they are setting up model campsites at IOLS sessions and camporees, teaching whittling and map reading and how to cook foil dinners -- and telling tall tales.  Eventually someone asks them, "Who are you folks?  What is your group called?"  They look at each other for a second, then they all point to some doo-dad they are each wearing, and one of them explains, "We're Rovers.  We roam around the trails and campgrounds."  Another pipes up, "Sort of like Gandalf the Grey."  A third says, "Or the Ghost of Scouting Past."  And the first one says, "Bringing the magic of Scouting.  Real Scouting."  

It doesn't need a handbook.  Maybe just a sheet of paper with three double-spaced lists:  The Principles of Rovering; Things Rovers Should Do; and Links to Resources on the Outdoors, Scouting Skills and Knowledge, and Scouting Fun Stuff.  But just like Scouting for Boys did so long ago, maybe those three brief lists, distributed on some Scouting forum, could be the spark that gets a lot of Scouting adults to start doing what they are naturally inclined to do anyway.

[ROVERS]

I have been working on this project  behind the scenes and am now ready to start forming patrols and experimenting with this. 

https://www.facebook.com/roversassociation/

I started B-P Scouting in 2006, turned the program over to others when I was deployed to Iraq a year later… then when I came home, it had turned into the BPSA-US, so I exited. 
 

I need some interested adults from age 18 to eleventy-one (111+) To help me with this experiment. 

Write to me either here, at RoversAssociation@gmail.com, call/text me at (865) 268-9035 for more information.

Craig

 

 

 

 

[RememberSchiff]

@ROVERS  on behalf of moderators of scouter.com , welcome.

[Kudu]

3 hours ago, ROVERS said:

I have been working on this project  behind the scenes and am now ready to start forming patrols and experimenting with this. 

https://www.facebook.com/roversassociation/

I started B-P Scouting in 2006, turned the program over to others when I was deployed to Iraq a year later… then when I came home, it had turned into the BPSA-US, so I exited. 
 

I need some interested adults from age 18 to eleventy-one (111+) To help me with this experiment. 

Write to me either here, at RoversAssociation@gmail.com, call/text me at (865) 268-9035 for more information.

Craig

 

In a way, Scouter.Com was the birthplace of Traditional Scouting in the United States.  Back in the 1990s Craig contacted me about an article I wrote for Scouter.Com's print publication.  It featured the adventures of one of my Patrol leaders, a 12yo free range kid who took his Patrol into the woods most weekends.  They lived on the rabbits and squirrels they hunted using a spear extender illustrated in one of the Patrol Leader's near-century-old library discards, Scouting for Boys.  Craig invited me to join his fledgling movement.  

Scouter Terry then set up a list serve for us, that included the original founder of BPSA-UK and the current Chief Scouters of BPSA-UK, BPSA-AU, the Canadian provinces, as well as the head of WFIS-NA (North America).  

Welcome back Craig! 

[ROVERS]

Those were good times, Rick. 

[MattR]

Wow. The things I never knew about scouter.com. Hey guys, bring your friends.

[InquisitiveScouter]

Is that the official Rover uniform ^^^^^^^ If so, I am IN!!!

Wait...is that a skin tight leotard, or is that his bare butt cheeks?

Edited June 15, 2020 by InquisitiveScouter