Major Changes Announced -- Councils Impacted

[Eagle1993]

1 minute ago, T2Eagle said:

I'm still a bit confused as to how so much of the council assets can be brought into this.  The councils are separate legal entities, domiciled in their own states; that's a hard vale to pierce.  

For instance, I live in Ohio, no change in the statute of limitations in other states affects my council's liability.  National does not have the authority to order us to turn over assets to it, and so neither does the bankruptcy court.  The power that National does hold over us is the charter, which really boils down to the copyrights.  So the real drop dead question for us would be how much are we willing to pay for the right to use the names and symbols.  They're certainly worth something, but I suspect the clearing price is a lot lower than what is being discussed here.

Is the problem that assets in the states that have changed are so substantial as a percentage of over all scouting that losing them would effectively doom the movement nation wide, or is it that National is determined to preserve its assets, primarily the HA bases, and so the price of keeping them is going to be paid by all the local councils?  If it's the latter I'd balk at that.  Philmont, Seabase, Summit et al are wonderful, but only a very small percentage of my or anyone else's scouts will ever go there.  On the other hand, virtually every scout attends a local scout camp. If the choice is between Philmont and my council camp I'll choose my council camp as the asset to keep.

 

 

The lawyers for the victims groups have been clear.  85% of assets in BSA are owned by councils, only 15% by National.  The 15% is simply not enough to pay all claims.  Either councils fork over a big amount of $$ in bankruptcy court or they will sue in state courts.  

So, if Ohio never changes their law, the risk to your council is probably lower than those in California, New York, Illinois, etc.  However, the impact on the brand will continue for many years as state laws change and new lawsuits are filed.  I'm not sure I want to keep hearing about lawsuits 10 years from now … but I also don't want to see our local camps sold.

Note that Ohio could change its law any time and if that happened, your council would then be at risk.  https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/investigations/new-law-would-eliminate-statute-of-limitations-for-rape-childhood-sexual-abuse

[desertrat77]

5 minutes ago, John-in-KC said:

Ding dong the beret is dead, the beret is dead, THE BERET IS DEAD

I don't know John, but in the middle of the night, I heard a thumping sound from my footlocker of scouting artifacts...there's at least one red beret in there for sure....

[InquisitiveScouter]

1 hour ago, Eagledad said:

Who is babysitting who! Doesn't matter, if babysitting is a word being used in your unit, they they are doing it wrong.

You are making many conclusions from such a short post.  And please notice, I didn't say "our unit."

Yes, "babysitting."  14-17 year olds want to hang out with their buddies, not teach the basics to 10.5 to 12 year olds.  The Scouts who enjoy this part of leading are few.

"The unit leaders are doing it wrong."  Maybe...but I think it is more the parents who are pushing their girls to earn Eagle for the college resume.

Where the rest of your rant is going, it's hard to see...maybe your horse is a bit too high? 

Edited May 21, 2020 by InquisitiveScouter

[Eagledad]

6 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

You are making many conclusions from such a short post.  And please notice, I didn't say "our unit."

My apologies, I wasn't trying to be personal, I meant to talk in generalities for the many different readers of the posts.

8 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Yes, "babysitting."  14-17 year olds want to hang out with their buddies, not teach the basics to 10.5 to 12 year olds.  The Scouts who enjoy this part of leading are few.

"The unit leaders are doing it wrong." 

Ah! You just made it personal. And I can say with confidence that any unit where babysitting is a word to describe their program, THEY ARE DOING IT WRONG. And please, I'm not saying I know your program, but I worked with a lot of units where they started with this attitude and I helped them to see where the program needed to change. Babysitting is an attitude generated by adults, not youth.

11 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

"  Maybe...but I think it is more the parents who are pushing their girls to earn Eagle for the college resume.

 

Every unit has the same basic parents, so how do some units get past a program where they believe older scouts don't want to hang around younger scouts because the All Mighty Eagle is the main thing. Well, in short, the adult leaders learn focus less on scout out comes and more on turning responsibility into fun actions for all the scouts. We older scouters call it, youth run and patrol method.

13 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Where the rest of your rant is going, it's a bit hard to see...maybe your horse is a bit too high? 

Knowledge and expertise often appears as arrogance to those with limited experience. Where the two meet is through humility. You can trust that I don't usually show such confidence in areas of scouting where I have limited experience, such as managing a Venturing unit. But I have a great deal of knowledge in how scouts of the troop are motivated and discouraged in the troop program. My knowledge wasn't developed just from my successes, but my many failures as well.

So, while the program moves forward (forward?) from today's challenges, I will still be here to posts on the bigger picture of building leaders of integrity and citizens of character. Because that goal doesn't change with time. 

Barry

[InquisitiveScouter]

5 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Where the two meet is through humility.

Yup

[InquisitiveScouter]

1 hour ago, John-in-KC said:

Ding dong the beret is dead, the beret is dead, THE BERET IS DEAD

Not so fast!!

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/hats-off-to-the-beret/

[PACAN]

Is this risk of property sales more for bankruptcy or council insolvency due to summer camp revenue losses?

[MikeS72]

6 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Oh, Lord, no!  Not the berets 😰  Campaign or Expedition Hats!!

Had a campaign hat back in the day as well.  Wore it along with the dark green Leadership Corps shirt on Woodbadge staff back in 1974.  Had to borrow the shirt from a 14 year old scout, who was a bit bigger than me at the time.

[MikeS72]

2 hours ago, John-in-KC said:

Ding dong the beret is dead, the beret is dead, THE BERET IS DEAD

The beret and Dracula have one thing in common - neither will ever die!😁

[Cburkhardt]

2 hours ago, Eagledad said:

And why would girls leave venturing for troops? If the boys are leaving because of babysitting, what is the attraction for girls? The unit leaders are doing it wrong. Chuckhardt has never hid his Troop's purpose of earning Eagles, but I know from experience that once the shininess of the Eagle wears off, the program better have something else. That something else is where the BSA will live or die in the future.

Eagledad:  

On more than one occasion you have mischaracterized our 32-member girl Troop as overly-oriented toward generating Eagles, presumably at the expense of not having an evenly-balanced program.  We certainly have our go-getters like we had in the Troop of my youth, but their presence is normal and expected.  Most members are enjoying the program and progressing at their chosen pace.  You have no basis upon which to make those slams.
 

As for the Venturing program, because it will now terminate at age 18 the differences between it and Scouts BSA are not as pronounced.  The advantage of being affiliated with the mainline Scouts BSA program and being able to use its well-known advancement program are far more appealing to younger girls than Venturing.  If Venturing started at age 11, no girls would join it at that point.  I think Venturing is nice to have because age 14+ youth who want to have an experience that is exclusively high school aged.  
 

 

 

 

 

[MikeS72]

36 minutes ago, PACAN said:

Is this risk of property sales more for bankruptcy or council insolvency due to summer camp revenue losses?

I read an article the other day in which one of the plaintiff's lawyers was discussing council assets.  His basic premise was that if every council does not turn over an accounting of all their holdings, they will file multiple suits against every council in a state which will allow them to do so.  Some have already started to file against councils this week.

They see $$$ and they think they see blood in the water.  While I feel for those people who were genuinely harmed, I wonder if any of them realize that when all is said and done, they will receive a miniscule portion of any settlement amount, with the lawyers raking in billions for themselves. 

[Cburkhardt]

I will want my council to contribute to the Victim’s fund and benefit from a discharge from liability.  Giving up some assets will give us a fresh start without fear of pre-petition claims haunting us in the future.  The folks from Ohio would be forced overnight into a council bankruptcy if at some point In the future the Ohio legislature were to repeal the statute of limitations.  

[SSScout]

1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Not so fast!!

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/hats-off-to-the-beret/

Maurice  Chevalier please call your office.   Aw, aw, aw,,,   

[Sentinel947]

22 minutes ago, Cburkhardt said:

I will want my council to contribute to the Victim’s fund and benefit from a discharge from liability.  Giving up some assets will give us a fresh start without fear of pre-petition claims haunting us in the future.  The folks from Ohio would be forced overnight into a council bankruptcy if at some point In the future the Ohio legislature were to repeal the statute of limitations.  

Agreed. Lets rip the bandaid off. We need to put these cases behind us for good, and protect the CO's from potential liability. I hope my council participates in the settlement. Ideally try to keep local camp properties if the council can afford them. I'd be sad to see us lose the HA bases, but they aren't the meat and potatoes like summer camp is. 

I share @MattRs concern. The program has always been about character building and citizenship development. Camping and outdoor fun is important because it (along with the patrol method) is how we accomplish these bigger goals. 

If Scouting becomes a purely camping club, particularly a family camping club, I have no need to participate. Even if I have kids, I could do cheaper, more robust, less restrictive outdoor activities with them than I can with the Scouts. No juggling other peoples calendars, no sending money to Irving.

[Cburkhardt]

I just got off the Central Region business meeting (via Zoom).  There is nothing new to share.  The Region elected another slate of Regional and Area officers, but the Region President (volunteer) stated that this would be adjusted when a new structure is announced.  Most of the time was taken by awarding the Silver Antelopes and Silver Buffalos for our Region, but there were plenty of references to the information shared yesterday during the general session.  I encourage everyone to watch the National Council business meeting at 4-5 (eastern) on Friday.