Major Changes Announced -- Councils Impacted

[Cburkhardt]

Surely materials will get distributed after this week.  There were over 2,000 people listening to the broadcast today and all council Key-3s discuss it tomorrow. There is no secret about any of this.  

I heard the following quote: "Everyone is going to become an adult at 18, and we are no longer going to have youth programming for 18 year-olds".  So I think that means the ambiguous status of 18- 21's will be over.

Did not mention this earlier, but not surprisingly, councils can grant advancement extension of 3 months in order for Scout to earn Life and Eagle.

[PACAN]

    Just released. 

[Oldscout448]

40 minutes ago, Cburkhardt said:

 

OA folks who are over 18 are pretty-much acting in adult roles except for the chiefs above the council level -- and many of them are college aged.  Frankly, those above-council youth structures will probably be downsized (no sections/areas/regions any more) because they are expensive to operate and require robust regional program volunteers and staff -- which will no longer exist.  Probably a national Chief/Vice Chief and a few others to represent whatever structure they coe up with the be between the council and national.  OA folks will be encouraged to become active in their Councils, which will be larger and offer a more-sophisticated leadership challenge for the chapter/lodge chiefs.   

Most of the chapter officers like chief, secretary, ceremonies chair, around here are the 16-19 crowd. The lodge officers are 18-20 years old.  I don't see very many 17 year old scouts with the experience or maturity to run a 4,000 member lodge. Even with the best of help. I fear we will see the Order run by adults even more than it is now. Which means the scouts will leave it even faster.

On a smaller scale note, the five best ceremonalists on the four chapters in my area are all over 18.

They are the ones who do most of the teaching, encouraging, and occasional rebuking.  If we lose them "gonna be in a whole world o trouble "

 

[Oldscout448]

31 minutes ago, PACAN said:

    Just released. 

NOT AGAIN!  Isn't once in a lifetime enough? 

[Cburkhardt]

Extremely Simplified Timing of the Bankruptcy.

In November the claims date passes and the total number of claims is calculated, including what the Bankruptcy court thinks they are valued at.

In December the plaintiff attorneys get full access to the council financial information.

In the spring the parties either (1) agree to the amount national and the councils will pay into the trust fund, or (2) the parties litigate what the "essential" national and council assets are, and the plaintiffs get everything else.  I believe agreement is not possible, because the plaintiffs are out to liquidate the BSA.

After the litigation, the national and council properties are liquidated by the court to make the required payments to the trust fund.  Some councils pay less/keep more because they had lower numbers  of serious claims filed related to their geographic territories.

The BSA emerges from bankruptcy and re-brands itself.

 

[Cburkhardt]

Old Scout:  It seems that the OA can evolve its culture to allow more adult active participation.  Or, it can re-emphasize chapters, which are more manageable for 17 year-olds.  There is not much fellowship at lodge activities when 2,000 people attend.   

[desertrat77]

1 hour ago, carebear3895 said:

Scouting/USA coming back from the dead?! Get your red berets, gents!

Carebear, I'm sure you recall those red berets made great pot holders, especially when frying bacon in an aluminum Trail Chef skillet.   

As for what the future holds, I'm of the opinion "so let it be."  Let's meet our obligations in a scout-like manner, and then relaunch a program that resembles something Baden Powell and Green Bar Bill would recognize. 

Edited May 21, 2020 by desertrat77

[5thGenTexan]

How does camp liquidation work?  My local camp is not Council owned, its on Corps property.  Do they sell what they can and then put the property back like it was when the camp was established?  Or something else?

[Cburkhardt]

5th Gen:  The Bankruptcy court will appoint a Trustee, who will be charged with marshalling and selling the assets that have been agreed by the parties to be liquidated to contribute to the Victims Trust Fund.  If there is no agreement, the parties will litigate what is "essential" to continue the program, and the Judge will decide what can be kept.  In that case the Trustee will sell everything else and deposit the cash in the Victims Trust Fund.  The BSA does not own the Corps property, so it is not an asset.  If there is personal property of the BSA on that land (vehicles, canoes, basketry kits), it is subject to being sold by the trustee.  After the personal property sale, the camp can be restored by new contributions afterwards (as long as the Corps agrees).

[Cburkhardt]

10 minutes ago, desertrat77 said:

As for what the future holds, I'm of the opinion "so let it be."  Let's meet our obligations in a scout-like manner, and then relaunch a program that resembles something Baden Powell and Green Bar Bill would recognize.

I think the commenters who have urged this approach are going to get their wish.  We are going to be a smaller, simplified organization after this with a dramatically slimmed-down cost structure.  Few properties to fund, not many executives and on-line materials.  Probably simple, inexpensive uniforms.  Volunteers running most things.  My Troop won't notice much change.

[5thGenTexan]

1 minute ago, Cburkhardt said:

I think the commenters who have urged this approach are going to get their wish.  We are going to be a smaller, simplified organization after this with a dramatically slimmed-down cost structure.  Few properties to fund, not many executives and on-line materials.  Probably simple, inexpensive uniforms.  Volunteers running most things.  My Troop won't notice much change.

You mean when I ask a question from Council employees and they ignore me or when the DE ignores me or at least doesnt follow up and I have to figure it out on my own.  Its going to be like that?  🤣

[Thunderbird]

1 hour ago, Cburkhardt said:

Did not mention this earlier, but not surprisingly, councils can grant advancement extension of 3 months in order for Scout to earn Life and Eagle.

Is that different from what is already posted on the BSA's COVID-19 FAQs page?

https://www.scouting.org/coronavirus/covid-19-faq/
 

[MattR]

2 hours ago, Cburkhardt said:

There will be complete emphasis on "outdoor fun" and a backing-away from "character building".

In the phrase "game with a purpose" I like the outdoor fun aspect but I wonder what the purpose will be. That's the key for me.

[Cburkhardt]

18 minutes ago, 5thGenTexan said:

You mean when I ask a question from Council employees and they ignore me or when the DE ignores me or at least doesnt follow up and I have to figure it out on my own.  Its going to be like that?  🤣

What this means is that the volunteer in charge will ignore you and not get back to you and then you can figure it our on your own!

11 minutes ago, Thunderbird said:

Is that different from what is already posted on the BSA's COVID-19 FAQs page?

Looks like it is the same thing.

[Eagle94-A1]

2 hours ago, Sentinel947 said:

I suppose that makes sense. Although I think it will also hit NYLT pretty hard. Any idea when these changes will be communicated?

The BSA already struggles to utilize and retain young adults in Scouting. I do not have any optimism that Councils will come up with roles suitable for these young adults, or use/treat them appropriately. More likely, this is a group of young adults we will lose, and I can only hope they'll return when they have their own kids. @Eagle94-A1 what do you think? 

After this rule change, given that these 18-20 year old's do not count as acceptable supervision for a Troop program, the only thing I can see them doing in the normal council is summer camp staff. 

My other concern and hopefully the details will be less alarming: "We will become intensively more outdoor in program emphasis.  There will be complete emphasis on "outdoor fun" and a backing-away from "character building".  The program since it's inception has always been about "character building." Outdoors skills, experiences and fun have always been a way we achieve that. Hopefully this will be more of thematic/marketing shift. 

 

 

I am hoping that since we will be removing program for the 18-20  years olds, we will be able to use them once again for YP purposes. After all if everyone over 18 is an adult , and not a mix of adults and "adult participants" there would be some consistency.

But if they do not change the YP  standards to allow for 18-20 years olds to be a 2nd registered adult, AND  Sea Scouting, the OA, Exploring, and Venturing are no longer for them, then I see us losing a bunch of the best and brightest. After I turned 18, Sea Scouts and the OA kept me interested. And it complemented my responsibilities as adult Scouter in my troop.