Major Changes Announced -- Councils Impacted

[MattR]

27 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

BSA has a long way to go here...how many of your council camps have been logged??

One of our camps is used by a local university's forestry program as a lab on how to thin forests. Is that the type of logging you're talking about? Or is it logging wood to sell? If the latter then not us, as all we have is Ponderosa Pine.

[InquisitiveScouter]

Logging to sell...raise money for council...and often with disastrous results.

One of my ASM's does environmental impact plans and assessments for the state.  He has been shocked at the devastation he has seen at our local camp, and at the two out of council summer camps he has been to with us since his son joined the Troop. 

The council I grew up in did the same...logged our remote lake camp for cash in the 80's (really trashed the place), then logged our main camp just before selling it in the 90's and moving all ops to the remote camp.

[malraux]

5 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Logging to sell...raise money for council...and often with disastrous results.

One of my ASM's does environmental impact plans and assessments for the state.  He has been shocked at the devastation he has seen at our local camp, and at the two out of council summer camps he has been to with us since his son joined the Troop. 

The council I grew up in did the same...logged our remote lake camp for cash in the 80's (really trashed the place), then logged our main camp just before selling it in the 90's and moving all ops to the remote camp.

That’s really unfortunate because they really should have a method to do managed logging to help improve the financial situation of the council while also managing the health of the environment. 

[TAHAWK]

Until the shut down, my old troop continued for the 27th consecutive year to have best attendance at backpackers. (The May backpacker was cancelled.)   It mainly draws from an inner-ring suburb adjoining Cleveland, Ohio.  The attendees are as culturally diverse as the troop itself.  Not surprising, as the program is selected and planned by the customers themselves, through their representatives at the Patrol Leaders' Council.  At the annual Program Planning Weekend, they schedule the backpackers first, then Summer Camp, then other feature campouts, and then the meetings that lead to the feature campouts.

 

Most of those who tell me "traditional Scouting" no longer sells, including our SE, cannot nearly  explain what "traditional Scouting" is, much less what the Patrol Method is.

 

"2019 Visitation Highlights

In 2019, the National Park Service received over 327.5 million recreation visits; up 9 million visits (2.9%) from 2018. 2019 edged out 2018 as the third highest year for recreation visits (behind 2016 and 2017)."

 

Edited June 7, 2020 by TAHAWK

[InquisitiveScouter]

3 minutes ago, malraux said:

That’s really unfortunate because they really should have a method to do managed logging to help improve the financial situation of the council while also managing the health of the environment. 

The ASM said they are supposed to have those management plans in order to get the logging permits, but most states don't follow up after the logging is done to see if they complied with the plan...

A camp in PA we went to a few summers ago had spent (they said) almost a million bucks rehabbing the dam for their lake.  Later, they logged the side of the mountain above the lake, and did significant damage to the watershed.  He took me on a hike around the logging area and showed me how all the runoff areas had become severely eroded, and where did all that soil go? Right into the "new" lake.  He told me if them if they didn't fix the problem soon, their dam repairs will have been money thrown down the drain.  Camp Director (a council professional) said "Thanks, we will look into it. 

That was the ASM's first summer camp, and he asked me, seriously, "I thought the BSA were supposed to be stewards of the environment?"

Last summer, the camp we went to had logged several hundred acres...nearly clear-cut and also watershed damage.  When he asked the ranger about it, he said it was all done to stop emerald ash borer.  He shook his head...told me later that someone, somewhere wasn't being honest.  He had walked through the area...most of the species harvested were not ash, and that logging wasn't a way to stop EAB...  Most logging of ash is being done to get the trees (and therefore, the cash) before EAB kills the trees and makes them unusable.

Our own camp had similar issues...storm damage and EAB...was supposed to be a type of salvage logging operation with re-planting...took many trees that were neither downed, nor ash ... near clear cut, and no replanting.  Council called on Scouts to come and replant...and two years on, it ain't pretty

[elitts]

4 hours ago, malraux said:

That’s really unfortunate because they really should have a method to do managed logging to help improve the financial situation of the council while also managing the health of the environment. 

My general understanding of how logging works is that unless you are talking about a forest full of valuable lumber, "managed logging" just isn't really commercially viable.  The expense and time involved in being careful and deliberate will basically wipe out the profit.  Particularly if most of the wood is expected to be sold to the pulp mills.

[dkurtenbach]

4 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

BSA has a long way to go here...how many of your council camps have been logged??

It's a question of character.  

Many people believe that conservation and environmental stewardship is a fundamental moral obligation.  As an ostensibly "outdoor" organization, an organization increasingly interested in promoting science, and an organization focused on the development of future generations, BSA is ideally positioned to be a leader in this area.  If it chose to do so, BSA could show the public that it is a serious organization with a serious mission that directly affects the modern world.  And that it is not just a dwindling, old-fashioned after-school activity in which kids dress up in cute uniforms, wave the flag, and collect colorful badges.

[Mrjeff]

One of our camps was hit by two sets of tornadoes.  Hundreds of acres of mostly pine were damaged or destroyed so a specialty salvage logging company was able to harvest most of the trees.  This certenly wasn't planned and those funds were used to completly rebuild/repair the infrastructure.   What a huge mess that was.

[RememberSchiff]

MISCOUTING FORWARD FAQs  (Michigan Crossroads Council)

https://michiganscouting.org/miscouting-forward-faqs/

These are the 5 Sections at above link but note many questions posted are unanswered.

MISCOUTING FORWARD - REORGANIZATION

POST COVID-19 PROGRAM RE-ENTRY

NATIONAL MEMBERSHIP FEES
PROGRAM FEES

SCOUTPAY

 

 

[TAHAWK]

16 minutes ago, Mrjeff said:

One of our camps was hit by two sets of tornadoes.  Hundreds of acres of mostly pine were damaged or destroyed so a specialty salvage logging company was able to harvest most of the trees.  This certenly wasn't planned and those funds were used to completly rebuild/repair the infrastructure.   What a huge mess that was.

What species of pine? 

 

Scots Pine (alien species) in NE Ohio are being slaughtered by Pine Bark Beetle.  Millions have been planted in vast monoculture tracts courtesy of the Government.  We have six acres, and half was all Scot's Pines.  We lose  9-12  a year. 

I have gone through five chain saws in 2 years, and I'm getting old for the work.  Wood is useless for fireplace.  Seems only good for rabbit piles.

White Pines and more resistant, as are Spruce species. 

We also have diseases killing all ash, all oaks, Sugar Maples, and hemlocks.  😐    Nature's way.

[Mrjeff]

I am not a forester but I believe that most were long leaf with some slash pine that grow well in South Georgia. The camp was decimated but thanks to a lot of hard work Camp Osborn is usable again, although quite different than it was. Thanks for asking.  By the was, even the stumps were salvaged for some industrial applications.