Thoughts on Aims and methods

[Eagledad]

Once every few years many of us like to have a philsophical discussion of Aims and Methods. It's not about correcting the current Aims and Methods, it's really more personal perspectives of how we view them as goals and tools. I always find some interesting approaches that I hadn't thought about before. I start just to give an idea of the direction of the discussion.

First lets list the Aims (goals for the adults to guard the program), and Methods ( Scouts actions for reaching the Aims (goals)).

Aims:

Character Development

Leadership Development

Citizenship Training

Personal fitness

Methods:

• Scouting Ideals.
• Patrols.
• Outdoors.
• Advancement.
• Personal Growth.
• Adult Association.
• Leadership Development.
• Uniform

I have over the years developed a style of using the Methods of scouting ideals, Patrols, outdoors and adult association to reach the goals of advancement, personal growth, leadership development and uniform for reaching the Aims.

Personal growth is a direct result of my four choice Methods and the major contributor toward the Aims.

Leadership Development is a natural development of participation with the patrol. I found leadership role modeling does more for leadership growth than any other type of development.

For me, Uniform is not only how the scout presents themselves in the patrol, but also how they fit as part of the flow of the team. Uniformity is both a personal and team responsibility and requires constant practice for developing a functional team, or patrol. In fact, I would say that Uniform, or team uniformity, is the main contributor to leadership development. Uniformity is also an equal partner with leadership for the most challenging decisions scouts make during their scouting career. I will also note that these are decisions that challenge adults the most and more often than not  take the responsibility off the scouts to ease their own struggle.   

Advancement is also the direct result of Patrol activities. Making it a Method doesn't make sense to me since the patrol activities should be practicing most of the requirements in the woods.

I find it interesting that National added Leadership Development to the Aims last year. Putting Leadership development in both the Aims and Methods proves to me that they don't understand how Scouting works for personal growth. THAT BEING SAID, I have always felt that Leadership Development should be a goal, not a method. Making it a Method forces the adults to make the leadership proactive when development is a reactionary part of scouting. 

I could be talked into taking Scouting Ideals out of my Methods list because they are really tools for the scouts to use in their actions during scouting activities. Cooking is another tool used in Patrol method and we don't require it as a method, why not think of scouting ideals the same. Well, probably because if we don't focus on them somewhere, the adults will loose sight of them in personal growth.

So, that is the starting place of the discussion. I hope you all will consider the discussion and give an opinion. There is not right or wrong answer. Just a personal philosophical opinion of how you see Aims and Methods working toward the goals of building ethical decision makers. And, I  hope the discussion is food for thought with the newer leaders struggling to develop a vision for their scouts. I know a discussion similar to this gave me some direction in my leadership style. 

Barry

 

[DuctTape]

I agree with you about leadership development as an aim, which follows from the methods. 

I do not distinguish which method leads to a specific aim, as I believe they all have a role. I accept arguments that some methods may contribute more to certain aims, but it is not not a one-to-one relationship.

I disagree with advancement being a goal and not a method. I agree that patrol activities will allow a scout to advance. As mentionrd, I see the methods working in concert with each other. As a method I see advancement as motivator, and an organizational structure. When advancement is used as a method in conjunction with the other methods it leads to the aims. Done inappropriately (as a goal in an of itself) it can detract from the aims.

A simple example; a scout who desires to earn 2nd class (desire = motivation), will on a campout need to select a patrol site and recommend it to his PL. This requirement focuses the scout not only to look out for himself, but his mates. It involves the patrol (method) too, and together the methods provide training in good citizenship. The conversation with the PL helps develop leadership not only for the scout seeking 2nd class, but for his PL. 

[Sentinel947]

Good topic @Eagledad I think the aims and methods are mostly fine as they are. I agree adding leadership development is unnecessary, but here we are. In some ways the aims and methods are a marketing document as well as a statement of organizational goals. 

I liked @DuctTape's comment and I don't have a ton to add to it. 

The methods are how we achieve the aims. This creates a very simple litmus test for us. (And maybe I'm underthinking this.) "Does what we are about to do with this method accomplish our aims and how?" For example, creating online merit badge clinics, and packing them full of Scouts, and signing them all off for the badge.... Does that develop character, or leadership? Does it help develop good citizens? Does it improve their personal fitness? If the answer is no, or only kind of, then how can we change our course to be an emphatic yes? 

Whether or not we consider advancement to be a goal or a method, it should always be kept in context of our aims. "Does the way we are doing advancement help us achieve our aims?" 

[desertrat77]

Great topic and discussion!

A few stray thoughts:

-  Uniform:  absolutely true Barry, uniformity goes beyond the actual uniform itself.   We see this dynamic at council and mult-district events.  There are units that are neatly uniformed, but take a closer look.  The patrols may be disaffected, disconnected, and standing around blinking like baby owls, waiting for the next command from an adult.  No spontaneous patrol spirit.  Not working together.   Lethargically going through the motions of competition, learning, hiking.   Adults, scouters and parents, chivvied the kids into full uniforming and some of them may even have patrol flags.  But there is no uniformity of scout or patrol spirit.   Get these two qualities going and there's no stopping them.

- Leadership:  this is an adult-driven mania.  Ironically, we've never had more "leadership and management" training available in the BSA.  Yet there is a huge dearth of actual leadership at any level.  Reasons:

1.  Leadership training is boring.  It shouldn't be but it is.  Sitting on a picnic bench on nice day and being lectured to is deadly, especially to the youth. 

2.  Many "leaders" in the BSA, self-proclaimed or showing multiple patches/devices of having attended leadership training or holding leadership roles, are not leaders at all.  They couldn't organize an egg and spoon race yet they occupy key positions in the BSA.  People see the disconnect.

3.  Leadership training does not produce leaders.  Actual experience in the field does.

4.  Despite the hoopla, most people will never be leaders.  At least not in the manner presented in our leadership training.  And that's okay.  Not everyone wants to be a leader.  There will always be a place in scouting for that First Class scout who will never make Eagle, even though his buddies are pushing toward that goal.  Yet this scout is often the dutch oven dessert expert, or a great instructor in other scout skills, and the kids look up to him/her nonetheless.  There are adult equivalents as well.  The troop treasurer, the 3rd string ASM...these folks will never get the recognition they deserve, but their long-term commitment and superb performance keep units going.

Solution:  Drop the powerpoint death marches, and the inane icebreaker/non-scout-skill-team building events ("who can build the tallest structure with 12 pieces of spaghetti, string and marshmallow?") and take a page from Scouting's past.  Scouts learned to be leaders by actually leading.  When they mastered the art and science of fire building, and then taught new scouts how to build a fire, they were leading but didn't realize it.  The old "game with a purpose."  And it's a heck of a lot more enjoyable than sitting in the classroom, too.

 

Edited April 26, 2020 by desertrat77

[MattR]

@Eagledad, those are some interesting views. Not bad, just different. I always thought the aims were the what and the methods were the how. So, there's no point in having what and how be the same thing. Unfortunately, I think the BSA thinks the aims are what the scouters are told and the methods are what the parents and scouts are told. The result is that there's a lot of not-on-the-same-page syndrome. Namely, the scouts don't understand the goals so there should be no surprise that many don't get it.

I absolutely don't think advancement should be a goal of the program. Most problems I see with the program stem from the idea that advancement is the ultimate goal. As a method for giving patrols something to work on while they learn it could be a good motivator but advancement by itself is just a distraction.

I think there's at least one missing method: fun. Why do we have to explain that online MB classes are a bad idea? Simple, they're boring for most scouts because advancement is reduced to schoolwork.

I'm not sure this is a missing method but advancement and fun should be in balance to lead to something bigger. Advancement for advancement's sake is nothing more than school. Fun by itself is just as shallow. So I think learning skills should always be done in the context of enabling something fun, or challenging, or new, or something that must be done for the bulk of the outdoor method events. it's not enough to get signed off on canoeing MB, go on a canoeing campout with your patrol. Have canoeing competitions. All advancement should be a way to enable fun ideas that a patrol can do together. The excuse is that a MB might lead to a career. I'd rather a MB will lead to a good memory.

And this brings up the biggest change I'd rather see. This whole idea of aims and methods is a philosophical discussion because it's off hidden in the weeds. I'd think changes in program would make a lot more sense if everyone in the BSA knew the aims and methods thoroughly. Not as a thread in a forum for old scouters but on the front page of the BSA website and the first pages of every manual, training and handbook that the BSA stamps it's name on. This is what we do and this is how we do it. Nobody should be confused about why massive online MB classes and online outdoor skills training is not a good idea.
 

[Sentinel947]

2 hours ago, desertrat77 said:

1.  Leadership training is boring.  It shouldn't be but it is.  Sitting on a picnic bench on nice day and being lectured to is deadly, especially to the youth. 

4.  Despite the hoopla, most people will never be leaders.  At least not in the manner presented in our leadership training.  And that's okay.  Not everyone wants to be a leader.  There will always be a place in scouting for that First Class scout who will never make Eagle, even though his buddies are pushing toward that goal.  Yet this scout is often the dutch oven dessert expert, or a great instructor in other scout skills, and the kids look up to him/her nonetheless.  There are adult equivalents as well.  The troop treasurer, the 3rd string ASM...these folks will never get the recognition they deserve, but their long-term commitment and superb performance keep units going.

Solution:  Drop the powerpoint death marches, and the inane icebreaker/non-scout-skill-team building events ("who can build the tallest structure with 12 pieces of spaghetti, string and marshmallow?") and take a page from Scouting's past.  Scouts learned to be leaders by actually leading.  When they mastered the art and science of fire building, and then taught new scouts how to build a fire, they were leading but didn't realize it.  The old "game with a purpose."  And it's a heck of a lot more enjoyable than sitting in the classroom, too.

 

I'll bite on this one. I'm making an assumption that you are referring to NYLT. I can't speak for other councils other than my own, and I'm definitely biased. I went to NYLT as a Scout, and have been on staff as an adult. This summer would be the third summer, but I doubt we're going to have any courses. The program isn't feasible with social distancing, even if we were allowed. As an assistant Scoutmaster, I've seen the effect of NYLT on my Scouts. As a fresh out of high school ASM, I used many of the skills I learned at NYLT to help my newer to Scouting scoutmaster team build a better vision for the patrol method and youth leadership in our Troop. NYLT was the first place as a Scout that I saw a functioning patrol method. It planted the seeds for me of what Scouting was supposed to be. My childhood troop had patrols, but we didn't really use them. We used them even less as the old guard of troop leaders from the 90's retired and the next generation took over.

I'm going to mostly defend NYLT. Both NYLT and Wood Badge are not supposed to be outdoors skills courses. It's expected that Scouts or (adults) have already received those skills in their rank advancement or adult leader training. It's also expected that Scouts have been practicing positions of responsibility in their Troops, and that would likely include teaching other scouts how to make campfires. If a troop program is deficient in these areas, making NYLT a week of outdoors skills practice wouldn't likely fix it much anyways. Most Troops struggle with outdoor skills because they don't get outside enough, and they don't do activities that require them to use their skills, or they take the easy way out (line guy out clips, pop up tents, lighter fluid on campfires.) 

When I was in high school band, my director had a saying, "There is no boring music, just boring musicians." NYLT and Wood Badge are much the same way. If you have an unprepared and boring staff, then the course would be boring. If the staff is more interested in them having a good time, than the participants having a good time, then it will be a terrible experience. Look no further than Summer camp, which when done wrong can take swimming, shooting, and a week in the woods, and somehow make it boring and tedious. 

That's not to say the NYLT program couldn't use a rewrite. (I believe that is in the works.) It's mostly the same that it was over 10 years ago when I went as a participant.  I'd love to see a little less corporate management type stuff, and a more about helping Scouts execute a better program back home. Like Wood Badge, I can't help if other Councils program sucks, or if their staffs are full of self-important types, but I do know that Scouting in my council and in my Troop would be significantly weaker without my council's NYLT program.  In my council its well attended, and even Scouts that initially don't want to go typically enjoy it and recommend it to others. I've seen stalled out Scouts, bored of the advancement grind, become re- energized for Scouting because of NYLT, including myself when I was a youth. Some of the youth on my staff's found in NYLT a place where many core aspects of Scouting were truly practiced (Youth leadership, patrol method, outdoors, that wasn't in their own units. Even more, they finally felt like they were being challenged and allowed to meet those challenges without undue interference from adults. Even an activity totally unrelated to Scouting skills, like the marshmallow-spaghetti challenge, help teach and reinforce leadership concepts from the course. The course still includes usage of backpacking stoves, realistic first aid, lashing skills, pioneering projects and an overnight outpost. Using Scouting skills to help teach and reinforce leadership.

I do wholeheartedly agree that leadership comes in a variety of forms, and it's not only the titled leader up front that matters. Being a good team member can often be its own subtle form of leadership. The world doesn't need (nor can it support) everybody being the stereotypical leader. It needs all sorts of players to make things work. 

 

Edited April 26, 2020 by Sentinel947

[desertrat77]

@Sentinel947, I was painting with an overly broad brush, referring generally to all BSA leadership training...which is always ill-advised, I'll admit. 

Reflecting...trying to dissect or bullet outline to the nth degree something as intangible as leadership is bound to result in tedium.  A few key thoughts to frame a concept is nice, but it's just as important to get up out of that folding chair and do something that results in a) application of the concept outdoors, b) the movement of blood throughout the vascular system and c) camaraderie and good memories.

It's great to hear NYLT is a success in your council.  I suspect it varies throughout the BSA.  Our council's program is solid.

Edited April 26, 2020 by desertrat77

[Eagledad]

Thanks all, good discussion.

On 4/25/2020 at 5:40 PM, Sentinel947 said:

Good topic @Eagledad I think the aims and methods are mostly fine as they are. I agree adding leadership development is unnecessary, but here we are. In some ways the aims and methods are a marketing document as well as a statement of organizational goals. 

I think of Aims and Methods as instruction or a map for scouters. You basically said the same with, "The methods are how we achieve the aims. This creates a very simple litmus test for us.".  The goal of building ethical and moral decision makers is a broad idealistic vision. Aims and Methods is the instructional path. I have always felt the Methods are the scouts' responsibilities'. And the Aims are the Adults responsibilities.

On 4/25/2020 at 5:40 PM, Sentinel947 said:

I liked @DuctTape's comment and I don't have a ton to add to it. 

Yep, good post.

 

On 4/25/2020 at 5:40 PM, Sentinel947 said:

"Does what we are about to do with this method accomplish our aims and how?" For example, creating online merit badge clinics, and packing them full of Scouts, and signing them all off for the badge.... Does that develop character, or leadership? Does it help develop good citizens? Does it improve their personal fitness? If the answer is no, or only kind of, then how can we change our course to be an emphatic yes? 

EXACTLY! This is how I taught all adults to try and think about working with scouts. If a scout's action or activity doesn't work toward the Aims, I found myself dropping it out of the program. And, if that action or activity does work toward the Aims, how can we enhance it to be even more productive toward growth? 

Also, once the adult starts thinking about how Methods work toward Aims. for example Uniform, they can explain it's value more clearly to anyone in simple terms and justify their program. Explaining the program in simple terms became very important when I was teaching Scoutmaster Fundamentals. Everything scouting comes up with new adult volunteers. Like Uniform. It's more than just looking sharp right? I've mentioned that Uniform for me was more than just wearing the uniform, but what values does just wearing the uniform do for a scout. We start with making the right or wrong decision to wear the uniform properly. Just the decision of how to wear the uniform starts a scout off in the right or wrong direction of making good decisions. What else? The Uniform starts every scout equal by looking the same in the context of Scouting by not segregating the rich from the poor or educated from the less educated. On the other hand, the uniform give the scout individuality within the context of scouting with badges that identify a scouts rank, patrol, troop and district. The scout may be a member of OA and have advanced training. A scout can truly set them-self apart in uniformity simply by wearing a uniform. 

On 4/25/2020 at 7:57 PM, desertrat77 said:

- Leadership:  this is an adult-driven mania.  Ironically, we've never had more "leadership and management" training available in the BSA.  Yet there is a huge dearth of actual leadership at any level. 

Leadership is hard for adults to get their heads around. Leadership has always been marketed as a goal of scouting, but most adults can't really define growth in leadership except for the documented Positions of Responsibility. Still, leadership was so values as a trait of scouting that the Army specifically looked for Boy Scouts for the invasion Normandy because the planners knew that so many soldiers would be injured of killed that they needed soldiers who could quickly step up. Is stepping up really a leadership trait? Well let's see. 

We struggle today with leadership development because most of the adult volunteers today's don't have any scouting experience to set the expectation. In the past, most adult leaders where scouts themselves. So without thought, patrols had hierarchies of more experienced guiding the less experienced and more ambitious setting a different path than less ambitious. Leadership was more about role models using servant direction to build a functional performing patrol during scouting activities. The patrol as a whole or team took more responsibility building experienced skilled scouts out of all their members. For most scouts, rank was a byproduct of how well the patrol used skills during their activities. Patrol guidance, training, coaching were learned by the young scouts from the role model older scouts. Not in classes, but in the actions of patrol activities.

Outside leadership training wasn't required because skills were learned and experienced in the patrol and handed over from generation to generation. Those skills continued into the adult ranks, so leadership wasn't really a thing, it was a part of the whole thing of being a scout.

But, adults today struggle to push a patrol to become an independent functional performing team unit. Without seeing for themselves, parents just plain lack the trust of youth. The adults tend to drive activities that make sense to them, like advancement. I even struggled in my own troop to push First-aid month to be about skills, not advancement. Plan a fun month of first-aid development, and let the scout find someone to sigh off requirements, if he desires.

Scouts struggle with leadership development today because the adults themselves don't know how to define leadership development in the Patrol Method world. Adults get hung up on elections for leadership, but elections have nothing to do with leadership development. 

I taught and pushed the idea that if the adult believes training is required for leadership development, then they don't know how to do leadership development. I honestly don't know if leadership development can be fixed because the ratio of non experienced scouters is increasing.

On 4/25/2020 at 7:57 PM, desertrat77 said:

4.  Despite the hoopla, most people will never be leaders.  At least not in the manner presented in our leadership training.  And that's okay.  Not everyone wants to be a leader.  There will always be a place in scouting for that First Class scout who will never make Eagle, even though his buddies are pushing toward that goal.  Yet this scout is often the dutch oven dessert expert, or a great instructor in other scout skills, and the kids look up to him/her nonetheless.  There are adult equivalents as well.  The troop treasurer, the 3rd string ASM...these folks will never get the recognition they deserve, but their long-term commitment and superb performance keep units going.

Exactly. Both my sons had no aspirations of being leaders, yet they were well respected, and called leaders, because of the areas they loved doing. I taught that scouting is all about developing confidence in making the next step. Whether it be camping skills or working with others, confidence comes off as leadership because it takes on the dark unknown challenges in stride. Confidence makes us "can do" type people, and "can-do" people are pro-actionary, which has the appearance of leadership. Confidence takes what a person knows and applies it to what they don't know to plan the next step forward. When the planners of the invasion wanted Boy Scouts, they were really wanting soldiers with confidence to move forward even when confronted with unspeakable challenges of battle. They saw confidence as leadership. And they believe that leadership (confidence) came from the experience of scouting.

On 4/25/2020 at 9:18 PM, MattR said:

I think there's at least one missing method: fun. Why do we have to explain that online MB classes are a bad idea? Simple, they're boring for most scouts because advancement is reduced to schoolwork.

I agree that Fun seems to be a harder challenge in scouting, and I believe it goes back to inexperienced adults. They don't have the experience of why standing by a simple campfire can be fun. A hike or fishing or building a fire. All of a sudden, these are activities of advancing, because as I said, advancing is a simple methodical method of pushing a scouting program. 

A new SM called me once to ask for program ideas because his scouts had run out of activities for campouts. He had mentioned that their themes were advancement driven. I suggested one to two hours of free time before dinner. He was aghast. "FREE TIME. I can imagine the trouble they will get into". He couldn't consider that scout created fun should be part of the program. he was never a scout himself.

I have personally experienced the challenge of turning adults leaders minds to building a fun activity and letting the scout figure out if they want to use that experience in their advancement quest. I had a meeting at my house one year to organize a summer camp team for getting our troop of 100 scouts to summer camp. One mother stepped up to lead the group because she was angry that her son didn't advance at camp the previous year. Her 11 year old son had so much fun with all the camp activities that getting requirements signed off just wasn't on his mind. She had a plan to advance every scout this next summer. I spent the next 30 minutes of explaining why her son did it right because he had fun. Her son Eagled 3 years later when other proprieties became important.

My comments appear to be anti-advancement, but they are not. My concern is how the adult side is loosing the understanding of A Game with a Purpose. For me, if we let the scout's take responsibility for the Methods, then the adults can focus on the performance of the Aims. The only real advice scouts need with Methods is to use them. Don't leave any out. On the other hand, if the adults don't see growth in character, citizenship, fitness, and leadership (confidence), then they should evaluate the program and make changes. I believe the adults in a high performing program are always making changes. Always tweaking and polishing. Nothing stays the same because different personalities of patrols rotate through the program. As a result, the program requires changed to fit the individuality of application of methods. More camping, less camping? More Patrol Method, less patrol Method? Uniform? leadership, is there any? On and on. Fun and growth, fun and growth, fun and growth. 

And not that the scouts shouldn't be included in those decisions. They must be part of the team. One year I approached the PLC for a change I felt would improve our program. I found the better performing troops tend to elect SPLs for 1 year terms. Seems that 6 months is just enough time to figure out how to lead a troop but not use the experience to benefit it. So, I proposed we give 1 year SPL elections a test. I was clearly voted down by the PLC. Oh well, it was their loss. LOL.

Good discussion, I hope we get more on the makings of Aims and Methods. 

Barry