Going Too Far: Online Outdoor Orientation

[TAHAWK]

"I thought 'Feedback is a gift.'"

Compare to:  "Every gift is appreciated."

[Eagle94-A1]

Well I got s copy of the Scouting U email to various training chairs which stated:

· We have been asked specifically about Wood Badge, NYLT, IOLS and BALOO. As stated above these courses should not be revised by a local council to be run in an online environment. Each of these have experiential learning in the outdoors that cannot be duplicated online.

In my email, it was highlighted in yellow.

[scotteg83]

3 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Well I got s copy of the Scouting U email to various training chairs which stated:

· We have been asked specifically about Wood Badge, NYLT, IOLS and BALOO. As stated above these courses should not be revised by a local council to be run in an online environment. Each of these have experiential learning in the outdoors that cannot be duplicated online.

In my email, it was highlighted in yellow.

I got the same one forwarded to me.

[TAHAWK]

3 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Well I got s copy of the Scouting U email to various training chairs which stated:

· We have been asked specifically about Wood Badge, NYLT, IOLS and BALOO. As stated above these courses should not be revised by a local council to be run in an online environment. Each of these have experiential learning in the outdoors that cannot be duplicated online.

In my email, it was highlighted in yellow.

Very up-to-date code: "Scouting U" 

Glad someone got something right. 

 

Sadly, as I have noted, our SE thinks training is a bad idea becasue poorly-done training is not popular with the customers. His dichotomy is: poor training vs. eliminating training as much as possible  He very much favors everything on line becasue it is "more efficient."

[SSScout]

22 hours ago, TAHAWK said:

Sadly, as I have noted, our SE thinks training is a bad idea becasue poorly-done training is not popular with the customers. His dichotomy is: poor training vs. eliminating training as much as possible  He very much favors everything on line becasue it is "more efficient."

Well, perhaps he is trying to be true to the Scout Law.  A Scout Is Clean, and there is nothing much cleaner than a disenffected key board. 

[TAHAWK]

1/6 OF ALL SMART PHONES WERE FOUND IN A 2011 "STUDY" TO BE CONTAMINATED WITH FECAL MATTER.. PERHAPS KEY BOARDS ARE BETTER.  

[jpb6583]

I'm DEFINITELY on that list now...

[Eagle94-A1]

What scares me is this comment: 

Over the past few weeks, Scouts and Scouters from coast to coast and around the world have logged thousands of views on our page and countless hours participating in our virtual content.

If that many people from across the country actually thought it was a good idea to take a hands on, physical class and do it virtually, then BSA's traditional program is very much in jeopardy. In another thread, I commented 

I hate to say it, but I don't think the folks remaining at national care about the traditional program. They are just concerned about the immediate money, worrying about next year at that time. I worked for pros like that. They didn't care about having a quality program that people wanted to join. Scouts were numbers. 

I am willing to bet that if they thought it would not be a liability issues, they would allow it, since it is apparently what people want.

I am glad, very glad actually, that national put a stop to this. But think think how this Scout Exec, someone who has been involved with the program for a number of years, had no problems with allowing this. And now that he is a SE, there is every possibility of him moving up to national.

 

 

 

[HelpfulTracks]

On 4/27/2020 at 12:35 PM, TAHAWK said:

Sadly, as I have noted, our SE thinks training is a bad idea becasue poorly-done training is not popular with the customers. His dichotomy is: poor training vs. eliminating training as much as possible  He very much favors everything on line becasue it is "more efficient."

So my question is was your SE not trained or was he just poorly trained?

[TAHAWK]

No idea.  
But a lot of training is about achieving national objectives - not program.

[Eagle94-A1]

When I was a DE in the Late 90s,  i needed to complete all the basic training for the programs prior to PDL1. Thankfully i was a trained ASM with a troop and AA with my post. All i needed was Cub Scout Basic Leader Training, which I took as a DE. When i got to PDL1, found out it was a formality that they would do outside of class the first nite.

Now i am told basic training is not required.

[HelpfulTracks]

13 hours ago, TAHAWK said:

No idea.  
But a lot of training is about achieving national objectives - not program.

I agree that RECORDING training is a national objective, and that some of the training serves little purpose in the field. But I think training is critical. 

When I served as Training Chair I always made sure that we covered the required check boxes, but went beyond and in more detail so our classes were really making an effort to teach the this skills needed.

For example in IOLS we would have EMT/WFA instructors teach First Aid. We spent a lot of time understanding Orienteering (the skill we found most Scouters had difficulty with). 

We also instructed Scouters on how to teach Scouts to be instructors, and how to leave space for Scouts to do that. We taught them to observe and how to be a guide when needed. 

I started IOLS with a simple list

1. You need to be proficient at the skills
2. You need to be proficient at teaching the skills
3. You need to be proficient at teaching Scouts to teach the skills
4. You need to be proficient at being quiet and letting the Scout teach the skills 
5. You need to be proficient at giving constructive ASSISTANCE ONLY WHEN NEEDED to the Scout teaching the skills
6. Don't freak out, it is easier than it sounds

[TAHAWK]

Ten years ago, under the previous council Training Chair, a big problem at IOLS was many  learners not wanting to leave at the end of the course Sunday Noon.  Now, with the "No List" over 130, only 10 "official trainers, and an SE whose response to complaints about  understaffed, poor, boring training is, as noted, not to have training, the Death Spiral is picking up speed.

One, resulting, behavior is many Wood Badge participants who have had no prior training whatsoever. ("We don' need no stinkin' rules!")

This is the SE who eliminated districts in favor of employee-run "service teams."

This is the "entitled"SE who ended FOS - "We shouldn't have to ask every year, over and over" - in favor of seeking  time-unlimited commitments to automatic electronic drafts from you bank account.  Fund-raising crashed.

[HelpfulTracks]

@TAHAWK,  just curious - has your council seen a greater decline in Scouting than the National Average?

He sounds 180 degrees from my SE and we have seen slight growth. 

[TAHAWK]

39 minutes ago, HelpfulTracks said:

@TAHAWK,  just curious - has your council seen a greater decline in Scouting than the National Average?

He sounds 180 degrees from my SE and we have seen slight growth. 

YES - PRETTY MUCH THAT WAY FOR THIRTY-FIVE YEARS.

 

In that time we have had five SEs - 

One dud, two extreme duds, one nice gent but retired-in-place, and one somewhat effective (but promoted fake registrations and left Council broke for successor).  

Edited May 7, 2020 by TAHAWK