Soliciting Funds

[elitts]

7 hours ago, Liz said:

The unit is "soliciting" to trade a car wash for $5. They are not ASKING for donations. 

The rule is that they can't solicit for donations. The rule is NOT that they can't accept donations if the giver decides to offer an unsolicited donation. 

I

In the post where someone mentioned their troop doing a car wash, they were explicitly doing the washes for "your donation" not "for $5 but we'll take whatever you give". 

There is something of a difference in intention and definitely a difference in the effect.  I've worked for organizations that try this both ways for event programs.  If you sell the event programs for $1, you will often make significantly less money than if you advertise it as "Please make a donation".  Because while many people in the second scenario will just take a program and walk away, the average donation from the people who choose to pay was usually $5 or more.

Personally, the only aspect of the issue that bothers me is the fact that the Popcorn sale actually violates the BSA's own standard for an "acceptable" fundraiser.  That's certainly within their rights, but it still bothers me.

[CynicalScouter]

17 minutes ago, David CO said:

I do not let a textbook publisher come into my classroom and tell me how to teach.  They often have definite ideas about how the course should be taught, and they do often include these gems of advice in the teacher's editions, but it is my choice to accept or reject their advice.

Bad example. You agree to participate in Scouts, BSA. You agree to their rules. No one is forcing their way into your classroom and tell you how to teach. You agree to be a chartered org or registered adult leader, you agree to abide by their rules on fundraising.

And it's not "advice", it is a requirement of the program. Don't like it, don't participate in the program.

A scout is obedient.

Edited September 8, 2020 by CynicalScouter

[David CO]

3 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

A scout is obedient.

Obedient to a business?  No way.  BSA can say anything it wants, but in the end, we only have to do what the law requires.  Nothing more.

Edited September 8, 2020 by David CO

[CynicalScouter]

Not worth the argument.

Edited September 8, 2020 by CynicalScouter

[David CO]

24 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Don't like it, don't participate in the program.

I haven't heard that one in quite a while.  We used to have a member on this forum who was constantly telling the people he disagreed with to get out of scouting.  Usually in bold type.  I don't know if he actually thought anyone would obey him (and get out of scouting).  I certainly didn't.  

[CynicalScouter]

1 minute ago, David CO said:

I haven't heard that one in quite a while.  We used to have a member on this forum who was constantly telling the people he disagreed with to get out of scouting.  Usually in bold type.  I don't know if he actually thought anyone would obey him (and get out of scouting).  I certainly didn't.  

I can disagree with the rules and wish they would change regarding fundraising and remain in scouting. The difference is that you seem to be advocating is that scouts and scouters active disobey the fundraising rules. That's a huge difference.

[David CO]

52 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

I can disagree with the rules and wish they would change regarding fundraising and remain in scouting. The difference is that you seem to be advocating is that scouts and scouters active disobey the fundraising rules. That's a huge difference.

My impression is that most Chartered Organizations don't take the chartering agreement very seriously.  I think my CO has actually been better than most.  But even my CO doesn't feel that BSA can dictate to them.  

[CynicalScouter]

1 minute ago, David CO said:

My impression is that most Chartered Organizations don't take the chartering agreement very seriously.  I think my CO has actually been better than most.  But even my CO doesn't feel that BSA can dictate to them.  

So, you'll only obey the BSA rules you want to and actively disregard those that you don't want to?

Wow. That's not a really good example. Again, a scout is obedient.

Edited September 8, 2020 by CynicalScouter

[David CO]

1 hour ago, CynicalScouter said:

So, you'll only obey the BSA rules you want to and actively disregard those that you don't want to?

Wow. That's not a really good example. Again, a scout is obedient.

My CO doesn't like to be talked to like a child.  A scout is obedient.  What kind of way is this to talk to grown men.  

[David CO]

I think some people forget that Chartered Organizations (and their representatives) are often made up of people who don't drink the scouting Kool-Aid.  They don't wear the uniforms.  They don't speak the lingo.  They don't revere BSA.  Scouting is just one small part of what they do.  A very small part.  They don't eat, drink, and breathe scouting.  Sometimes, they are not even all that keen on having a scout program.  

It's not a very good idea to quote the scout oath/law to them as if they are the Magna Carta, Declaration of Independence, and Ten Commandments all rolled up into one.  The CO's are probably not interested.

If there is a problem, meet with the CO and explain your concerns.  Treat them like adults.  Treat them with respect.  Don't make demands and threats.  Don't quote BSA rules.  Just lay out your concerns and trust that the CO will try to accommodate you (if it can).

Edited September 8, 2020 by David CO

[MattR]

Gentlemen, it's time to let it go.