Soliciting Funds

[TAHAWK]

"this"?  

[elitts]

3 hours ago, David CO said:

Not much.  I see very little difference in selling grossly overpriced items (like popcorn) and soliciting for donations.  It's really the same thing.  

Particularly when all the advice on selling from BSA is that you shouldn't be marketing the product, you should be "Selling Scouting".

[elitts]

2 hours ago, Eagledad said:

Really? The scouts take responsible for success in one and grow from the experience , while the adults take the growth opportunity away from the scouts in the other.

Let’s not suggest selling high priced items to raise funds for scouts is new. It’s been a tradition at least since the 60s when my sisters and I were scouts. I haven’t seen the Campfire Scouts selling their candy in some years, but if I ever do, I will donate, A LOT.

Barry

 

Except that when we were selling the popcorn in the 80s, it was only "pretty expensive".  The popcorn has gotten progressively more overpriced as time has passed.  In the late 80s/early 90s, the box of microwave popcorn was something like 50% more expensive than the popcorn in the store.  Now the markup is more like 400+% higher on virtually everything.  AND, I'd argue that the quality has fallen somewhat at the same time. (I remember it actually tasting better than most of what was available in the stores, but I'll admit that could have just been inexperienced taste buds.)

[Eagledad]

1 hour ago, elitts said:

Except that when we were selling the popcorn in the 80s, it was only "pretty expensive".  The popcorn has gotten progressively more overpriced as time has passed.  In the late 80s/early 90s, the box of microwave popcorn was something like 50% more expensive than the popcorn in the store.  Now the markup is more like 400+% higher on virtually everything.  AND, I'd argue that the quality has fallen somewhat at the same time. (I remember it actually tasting better than most of what was available in the stores, but I'll admit that could have just been inexperienced taste buds.)

Nothing here changes my post.

people want to support scouting, at least they used to, and products give them that opportunity. Our troop did car washes for donations. Some of those donations were over $100. Only a few were less than $20 at a time when $5 was a the most anyone would pay at a commercial car wash. AND, there is arm no bending to sell cookies, candy and popcorn, it’s their choice.
 

Barry

[David CO]

1 hour ago, Eagledad said:

Our troop did car washes for donations. Some of those donations were over $100. Only a few were less than $20 at a time when $5 was a the most anyone would pay at a commercial car wash. 

Exactly my point.  The car wash is used as a fig leaf to cover up the fact that the unit is soliciting for donations.  They are not selling a product or service for fair market value.  They are not earning their own way.

[Eagledad]

23 minutes ago, David CO said:

Exactly my point.  The car wash is used as a fig leaf to cover up the fact that the unit is soliciting for donations.  They are not selling a product or service for fair market value.  They are not earning their own way.

Tomatos - tomotos. Sheesh!

Barry

[David CO]

On 3/27/2020 at 11:04 AM, ANEagle20 said:

Why exactly, can individuals or units not solicit funds to pay for stuff?

The fact is we do.  Try not to do it so blatantly that you can't come up with a plausible explanation if council calls you on it.

[SSScout]

13 hours ago, Eagledad said:

. Our troop did car washes for donations. Some of those donations were over $100. Only a few were less than $20 at a time when $5 was a the most anyone would pay at a commercial car wash.

Donations?  Did the Scouts wash/dry/vacuum the car out?   Did they do a service for the "donation"?   What was a carwash worth to the washee?   The Scouts still DID a service.  

Placing US flags on your front lawn during a holiday and retrieving them later. 

Buying and having the Scout(s) spread mulch/wood chips for you...

I once saw a Cub Pack do a "tent set up demo" at a shopping mall . For a price ( ?$5. sticks in my mind) the Cubs would set up a tent  for the payee.  Your choice of tents, I think.  It was fun watching the Cubs rip the parts out of the bag and get the tent up in minutes.  It was a "service", an entertainment if you will, but the Cubs worked to earn those bucks.   Did folks throw some extra into the pot? Sure, but the price was posted. Then they took it down, repacked it in the bag and waited for the next customer......

Christmas trees and "holiday decor" . . . prices were usually about the same as at the Lion's Club stand or even Home Depooo, but one had a choice of tree and seller.  Capitalism rampant.  

The idea is the Scout needs to take some responsibility for the cost of camping, yes?  

Council buys and maintains the camp (we hope). That takes big(ger) bucks than operating a Pack or Troop.   Sense of scale and experience.   

[Liz]

13 hours ago, David CO said:

Exactly my point.  The car wash is used as a fig leaf to cover up the fact that the unit is soliciting for donations.  They are not selling a product or service for fair market value.  They are not earning their own way.

The unit is "soliciting" to trade a car wash for $5. They are not ASKING for donations. 

The rule is that they can't solicit for donations. The rule is NOT that they can't accept donations if the giver decides to offer an unsolicited donation. 

I personally think the popcorn sales are a much better fig leaf analogy, because you are literally asking people to pay $30-$35 for something they could walk across the street and buy for $5 at the store. You're not selling them for $5 or even $7 and accepting that a few people will slip you an extra $100. 

In fact, when I was with a unit that sold popcorn, I frequently encountered people who would say they would love to support Scouting but would rather donate $20 than buy a $40 container of popcorn. 

I'm really glad our Council doesn't materially participate in Popcorn or expect units to participate. They offer an online program for families that really want to do it, but it's not one of our major fundraisers. 

[David CO]

1 hour ago, Liz said:

I personally think the popcorn sales are a much better fig leaf analogy, because you are literally asking people to pay $30-$35 for something they could walk across the street and buy for $5 at the store. You're not selling them for $5 or even $7 and accepting that a few people will slip you an extra $100. 

So do I.  I didn't use the popcorn sales as an example because the OP is specifically asking about non-council fundraising.  If his unit is going to do its own soliciting for funds, he will need to come up with some sort of phony-baloney explanation to give to council.  

[CynicalScouter]

5 minutes ago, David CO said:

So do I.  I didn't use the popcorn sales as an example because the OP is specifically asking about non-council fundraising.  If his unit is going to do its own soliciting for funds, he will need to come up with some sort of phony-baloney explanation to give to council.  

Or, they can just, you know, follow the policies as laid out in

1. The Charter and Bylaws of the Boy Scouts of America
2. The Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America
3. the Guides To Unit Money-Earning Projects, and
4. the Fundraising Policies and Procedures Manual

all of which prohibit in one way or another a) unit solicitation in general unless b) they have the expressed, written consent of Council.

A scout is trustworthy and does not engage in "phony-baloney".

A scout is obedient and follows the rules.

Or did I miss something?

Edited September 7, 2020 by CynicalScouter

[yknot]

1 hour ago, Liz said:

I'm really glad our Council doesn't materially participate in Popcorn or expect units to participate. They offer an online program for families that really want to do it, but it's not one of our major fundraisers. 

Our Council is the same. In our area popcorn is pretty much dead except for the folks who like to do it online. Food sales of any kind are getting increasingly hard to do because of all the allergies and preferences based on either health or ethical concerns.

Our Council also pretty much lets units do whatever they want to raise funds short of asking for outright donations.  

Parents also increasingly no longer have the time or interest to spend a half a day in front of a store somewhere, especially on top of fee increases. People are either working long hours or multiple jobs or if they have the money they'd rather just "buy" their way out of fundraisers. Things that combine an element of fun or service have been the most successful in our area.

[David CO]

2 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

Or did I miss something?

I don't think you're missing anything.  I just disagree with you.

[CynicalScouter]

1 hour ago, David CO said:

I don't think you're missing anything.  I just disagree with you.

Disagree how? That making up a as you call it "phony-baloney" excuse violates every known BSA regulation and guideline? Or that the BSA regulations and guidelines must be followed?

Edited September 7, 2020 by CynicalScouter

[David CO]

2 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

Disagree how? That making up a as you call it "phony-baloney" excuse violates every known BSA regulation and guideline? Or that the BSA regulations and guidelines must be followed?

We had this discussion many years ago when I first joined the forum.  I think of BSA as a business, just like any of the other businesses I have had dealings with over the years.  I usually compare BSA to a textbook publisher.  As a teacher, I deal with textbook publishers all the time.  I do have an ethical and legal obligation to honor their copyrights.  I don't take their materials and make illegal copies.  That's stealing.

I do not let a textbook publisher come into my classroom and tell me how to teach.  They often have definite ideas about how the course should be taught, and they do often include these gems of advice in the teacher's editions, but it is my choice to accept or reject their advice.  

All businesses try to develop customer loyalty.  It's good business.  A business might advertise a statement that their customers are like family.  But they're not family.  They're just customers.  A good consumer can read through all the hype.  BSA tries to develop a steady customer base by giving people the impression that BSA is a club, and we are all members.  We're not.  We are just customers.

BSA gives us a lot of phony-baloney talk.  Sometimes we need to give it right back to them.  So what is it I need to follow?  I need to follow the law.  That's it.  I owe BSA nothing more.  Neither do you.

 

Edited September 8, 2020 by David CO