Soliciting Funds

[ANEagle20]

Why exactly, can individuals or units not solicit funds to pay for stuff? Because the local councils, and national organization do it all the time, and don't give that money back to the units to use. 

[MattR]

We do it all the time. Who, at your council, told you otherwise?

[scoutldr]

All units need to submit the Unit Fundraising Application to the Council for approval.  Your SE will guide you from there.  We were always told that soliciting support from local businesses was the job of the Council professional staff for the Friends of Scouting campaign.  Units are preferably supposed to support the popcorn program.  The pros don't want to hit up a businessman only to be told "oh, we already donated to Troop XXX".  

[ANEagle20]

I still do not understand why units or individuals can't solicit funds. Because the units don't see the money that the council receives. Also, the people that have been having problems are like DE's an such. 

[Thunderbird]

The closest I could find was from this Bryan on Scouting article:

Read this list of do’s and don’ts before your next unit fundraiser

And the Fiscal Policies and Procedures for BSA Units FAQs (revised November 2019) just says:
 

Quote

 

We can’t solicit gifts for our unit?

No. Simply put, units are not permitted to solicit any gifts.

 

 

Neither one really answers the question "why", they both just say "no".

[qwazse]

4 hours ago, ANEagle20 said:

Why exactly, can individuals or units not solicit funds to pay for stuff? Because the local councils, and national organization do it all the time, and don't give that money back to the units to use. 

The reason is not "exact", it's a bit fuzzy and boils down to answering your question with a question:

What does a scout learn by asking for some extra cash outright that he/she wouldn't learn by providing goods or services (e.g., a brunch, a wreath, a dead tree collection) for a nominal fee?

[awanatech]

I agree with @scoutldr, the Council doesn't want the competition.  They know who their donors are and don't want to show up to solicit funds, only to find out that they've already donated their allocated Scout gift budget to a specific unit.

[SSScout]

*sigh*  Let's go back to that old saw, the Scout Law.   "  Thrifty:   A Scout is Thrifty. A Scout works to pay his way and to help others. He/she saves for the future. She/he conserves natural resources.  He/she carefully uses time and property.""

The idea is the Scout, by themselves, thru their Patrol and Troop/Crew/Ship  EARNS their way.  Sell things.  Do things.  Get pay for effort . This is not the "Good Turn"  or "Service Project (which is at base a REALLY Big good turn)".    If the local Council , thru it's efforts, provides campgrounds and recognitions, all to the good.  That's  where the "gimmes"  should be.   

It is all too easy to find a Scout friendly hardware store or landscape company or even a uncle Jake  to donate a Troop Trailer or dozen tents or even just a twenty dollar bill when asked.  Can't do that.  The rule is there for a purpose.  Not just because the Council doesn't want to hear that the Deep Pocket has already been tapped by Venture Crew PDQ. It is deeper than that.  

The Scout unit MUST NOT go out and ask for a handout.  That's Council's job.  The Scout Unit's responsibility is to show the Scout HOW to be responsible for their activities. You want to go to Seabase? (okay, next year,....)  Can't/shouldn't just assume a grant from the Bank of Momanddad.  The crew going to Seabase can do carwashes, hold pancake/Dutch oven/hotdog dinners. Rake leaves.  Plan ahead.   Give VALUE for the fee.   Scouting as such must not be a charity. Not on the Scout level.  This is not to say that there may be charity involved ( TheMuddy Lions comes to mind) if the reality requires, but it should not be the usual way. Not the "official" way. 

 It also helps prevent personal abuse.  "I'm a Scout. give me money so I can go to camp" ?   Nah.  Doesn't sound good.  

".... and they (council, national) don't give it back to the unit..."   well not directly, sure. But those funds operate Philmont,  and other things. Jamborees need a little start up capital. Council camps are there for your Troop to visit any time, yes?  And think of this:   If you sell popcorn or campcards or meatsticks, the Council will receive a piece of that action, right?   BUT . . .If YOU hold a spaghetti dinner and make boocoo bucks from that, will your unit send some bucks to Council? 

Ummmm . . . . . 

Those are my reasons.  I hope that helps, ANEagle20.    

Edited March 28, 2020 by SSScout

[CynicalScouter]

  

On 3/27/2020 at 12:04 PM, ANEagle20 said:

Why exactly, can individuals or units not solicit funds to pay for stuff? Because the local councils, and national organization do it all the time, and don't give that money back to the units to use. 

In short, because Boy Scouts of America owns the right to the name, logo, trademarks, etc. By becoming a unit you agree to abide by (among other things) The Charter and Bylaws of the Boy Scouts of America which limits who may use the name, logo, trademarks, etc. to National. Councils and units may only use them if they are in compliance with National's Charter, Bylaws, Rules and Regulations which include provisions that you may not solicit unless the Council permits it and even then there are restrictions.

The Charter and Bylaws of the Boy Scouts of America https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/Charter_and_Bylaws_June_2019.pdf

Quote

Youth members shall not be permitted to serve as solicitors of money for chartered organizations, for the local council, for the National Council, for corporate
sponsors, or in support of other organizations. Adult leaders and youth members shall not be permitted to serve as solicitors in support of personal or unit participation in local, national, or international events.

And who gets to decide whether your unit fundraising plan is in compliance? Council.

The Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/membership/pdf/Rules_Regulations_June_2020.pdf

Quote

Subject to the Bylaws, Rules and Regulations, policies, and guidelines of the Boy Scouts of America, chartered organizations and units may engage in projects to earn money to participate in Scouting, provided that all approved procedures for doing so are followed, including prior approval by the local council.

and Guides To Unit Money-Earning Projects https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34427.pdf

Quote

Adult and youth members shall not be permitted to serve as solicitors of money in support of personal or unit participation in local, national, or international events. At no time are units permitted to solicit contributions for unit programs.

Bold in the original.

 

Edited September 6, 2020 by CynicalScouter

[David CO]

On 3/27/2020 at 1:54 PM, ANEagle20 said:

I still do not understand why units or individuals can't solicit funds. 

Any funds you solicit are the property of your Chartered Organization.  

 

[SSScout]

Earning is still different than asking for money.  A Scout should early on (from family?)  learn/discover the connection between effort and reward.  

I had (and so did our kids) an "allowance".  It was , yes, a gift, but it had strings.  Chores to help the family home along.  Learn to budget and save.  They are off as adults and all doing well, thank you.   See my previous post/answer.   The BSA has enough present trouble without being thought of as purely a poor "charity" of kids who can't afford to go to camp on their own. 

[David CO]

1 hour ago, SSScout said:

Earning is still different than asking for money. 

Not much.  I see very little difference in selling grossly overpriced items (like popcorn) and soliciting for donations.  It's really the same thing.  

[Eagledad]

34 minutes ago, David CO said:

Not much.  I see very little difference in selling grossly overpriced items (like popcorn) and soliciting for donations.  It's really the same thing.  

Really? The scouts take responsible for success in one and grow from the experience , while the adults take the growth opportunity away from the scouts in the other.

Let’s not suggest selling high priced items to raise funds for scouts is new. It’s been a tradition at least since the 60s when my sisters and I were scouts. I haven’t seen the Campfire Scouts selling their candy in some years, but if I ever do, I will donate, A LOT.

Barry

 

[TAHAWK]

FROM THE BSA BOOK-OF-THE -MONTH CLUB SELECTION FOR SCIENCE FICTION:

 

"5. If a commercial product is to be sold, will it be sold on its own merits and without reference to the needs of Scouting?

All commercial products must sell on their own merits, not the benefit received by the Boy Scouts of America. The principle of value received is critical in choosing what to sell."

 

BSA February 2, 2017

 

 

Edited September 6, 2020 by TAHAWK

[ParkMan]

I believe the primary reason for this is so that units do not compete with the council for donations.  If Scouting units are all running around asking banks to donate to their troops, then it will make it more difficult for the council to solicit funds.  This is why councils have the ability to approve fundraisers too.  Until recently councils were not allowed to assess fees to members and so the bulk of their funding needed to come from donations.

So, while the distinction between soliciting and earning is a good one - the primary reason is to make it easier for the councils to exist.

Edited September 6, 2020 by ParkMan
clarified a thought