Predicting Nationwide Shutdown Continues to Sept.

[JoeBob]

17 hours ago, fred8033 said:

Focusing on "growing membership" ... This is always BSA's big mistake.  We focus way too much on how do we fix the membership issues.  The issue is really how do we fix the program.  If you have a bad product, people won't buy your product.  So if you want to grow membership, focus on the best camps, best activities, best reasons for being a scout.  Only that will grow membership.  Recruiting for the sake of recruiting will kill any organization.  But selling a great product will only drive more sales.

Fred, I love you.

 

 

 

From 6 feet away.

 

Edited March 27, 2020 by JoeBob

[MattR]

Four trout? That's all? Nice trout.

[fred8033]

1 hour ago, JoeBob said:

Fred, I love you.

Let's just be friends. 

[Thunderbird]

Some advice from the National Park Service:
 

Edited March 27, 2020 by Thunderbird

[PACAN]

Don't disagree with @carebear3895 or@Cburkhardt .  One item that is very possible if the summer camp season crashes is the end of smaller councils (2500 youth or less) with their own camps) since the majority of their revenue is from the camping fees.  Sale of the property and merger with larger (remaining and now smaller) councils.

Still looking forward to @CBurkhardt response to my earlier post.  Thanks. 

[Sentinel947]

On 3/26/2020 at 3:38 PM, Jackdaws said:

I do believe this is going to be the death knell to a lot of scouts/units.  Hardest hit group: AOL kids that were supposed to crossover & potentially those 16 1/2-17 year old Life Scouts that were starting to work on their Eagle Projects.   Very good chance those 2 age groups could just fade away.  

 

I'm not sure if this is a death kneel for units. Eligible youth cannot really do any other activities during this time period either. I think most folks are going to go back to doing whatever activities they were doing before the shutdown, with some variation due to some folks losing their jobs and not having solid finances. I think the 2008 financial crisis is probably a more reasonable scenario to look to for an idea about where numbers, camps, and donations are headed. Plenty of areas across the country will have minimal deaths, and the damage will be mostly financial. Some areas will have great financial damage, and significant loss of life. It's harder to say what will come out of those areas. 

Edited March 28, 2020 by Sentinel947

[SSScout]

On 3/26/2020 at 9:24 PM, fred8033 said:

Focusing on "growing membership" ... This is always BSA's big mistake.  We focus way too much on how do we fix the membership issues.  The issue is really how do we fix the program.  If you have a bad product, people won't buy your product.  So if you want to grow membership, focus on the best camps, best activities, best reasons for being a scout.  Only that will grow membership.  Recruiting for the sake of recruiting will kill any organization.  But selling a great product will only drive more sales.  

I agree.    How was Scouting begun?   With a bunch of kids that read a book about outdoor adventure written by a British army hero who made his fame by being a ""Scout"". He decided the best way to improve the type of recruits the army was getting was to encourage the youth to do adventurous stuff while they were young.  Now , granted, alot of the stuff he espoused can't be easily accomplished today, and some of it is downright too dangerous or not really socially acceptable (and rightly so).  But that is the idea, virus not withstanding.  We should think about that.   The promise of FUTURE outdoor adventure is about all we have right now, and that is what we need to concentrate on.   Virtual knots, lashings, Patrol competition over ZOOM,  compare my indoor CUB campout with yours , but plan the future Camporee,  plan the camps as best we can with the promise that it will be possible LATER .

Can't get together physically to DO stuff ? Every youth organization,  name any... 4H, Royal Rangers,  AHG,  BP Scouts, GSUSA,  Vanguard Scouts (!), are going to have alot of the same problems, it's just that BSA is out front with problems because of the poor handling (40 years ago !) of youth abuse and the inherent present bankruptcy. 

I was recently asked by a friend about BSA's decline (he was never a Scout) and I had to delineate the leaving of the CoJCoLDS in their desire to have more  control over that program, the old "secret files" from the sexual abuse scandals , the loss of other charter orgs over the admission of any young human that is breathing, the defensive fiscal posture necessitated by the salivating lawyers, the proliferation of paid Scouters (compared to other youth organizations),  the change in BSA's traditional stance  vis a vis the Scout Promise and Law  and the world today,  Oh we had a good discussion until he decided he really wanted to talk about his own family troubles..... 

Sell off camps?   Last resort, but is often seen by Council pro's as the BEST resort to a short term solution.   The time of Troops "owning" their own campsites is just about gone, unless you are way out in flyover land (I hate that term).  I refer you to the post I wrote about the Troop doing it's own summer camp program.   To re-quote Billie Holiday,  "God Bless the Scout that's got his or her own." 

See you (I hope) on the trail....

[Mrjeff]

Another issue for rebuilding the Scouting program is the cost.  The powers that be or were,  doubled the registration fee.  That alone made Scouting cost prohibitive for some of the guys.  Now with businesses closing, the added expense of having the kids out of school for an indefinite period (extra food, higher utility Bill's, child care...) individuals being out of work, many just won't be able to afford the Scouts.  What a challenge we all face. It may revert to the days when a couple of tarps, a tent or two, and some blankets, and a friendly farmer's field make up a Scout trip.

[desertrat77]

20 minutes ago, Mrjeff said:

Another issue for rebuilding the Scouting program is the cost.  The powers that be or were,  doubled the registration fee.  That alone made Scouting cost prohibitive for some of the guys.  Now with businesses closing, the added expense of having the kids out of school for an indefinite period (extra food, higher utility Bill's, child care...) individuals being out of work, many just won't be able to afford the Scouts.  What a challenge we all face. It may revert to the days when a couple of tarps, a tent or two, and some blankets, and a friendly farmer's field make up a Scout trip.

True!

May I add:  in the future, if a uniform is considered a neckerchief or a scout t-shirt, so be it.  Does a Cub Scout really need a new hat, buckle, neckerchief and slide each time they advance in rank?  Thirty bucks per scout, each rank.

Or ask scouts to buy a set of Dickies work clothes from the local department store.  Sew on patch or two, perhaps add a neckerchief, and call it a uniform.

Edited April 2, 2020 by desertrat77

[Cburkhardt]

National Professional Staff Furloughed.  I am very sorry to share that 240 in Irving and 700 from Supply Division have been furloughed.  These are wonderful people who have served us for many years.  

[Cburkhardt]

Prediction:  New National Structure to be Announced.  I'll go out on a limb and suggest that a new governance and operations structure above the council level will be announced sometime after the National Executive Board meets sometime in mid-May.   

[Cburkhardt]

Councils qualify for $10 million COVID-19 loan/grants.  I can confirm that councils qualify to apply for the $10 million federal loans designed to keep organizations in business -- the same program available to small businesses with fewer than 500 employees.  Many councils are applying.  As long as these are used to pay salaries, benefits, etc., they become grants and do not have to be paid back.  The amount each council will get is determined on a calculation based on its 2019 payroll totals.  This just might save the summer camp season from a cash standpoint -- as long as the local health circumstances allow for it.  

[fred8033]

20 minutes ago, Cburkhardt said:

Councils qualify for $10 million COVID-19 loan/grants.  I can confirm that councils qualify to apply for the $10 million federal loans designed to keep organizations in business -- the same program available to small businesses with fewer than 500 employees.  Many councils are applying.  As long as these are used to pay salaries, benefits, etc., they become grants and do not have to be paid back.  The amount each council will get is determined on a calculation based on its 2019 payroll totals.  This just might save the summer camp season from a cash standpoint -- as long as the local health circumstances allow for it.  

Wow.  That's great.

My wife and I chatted about summer camp for our youngest son.  We just see no way it's going to happen this year.  We're hoping next year will happen.  I'm glad our local scouting professionals can get financial help as all revenue will disappear.  

Edited April 5, 2020 by fred8033

[Cburkhardt]

At this point, the issues surrounding the bankruptcy have been overwhelmed by the cash crunch from the virus.  Councils need the cash now and must absolutely apply for this lifeline grant.  It can be used to pay camp staff.  I can think of no justified reason why any council should not apply for this cash -- which is made available precisely to address liquidity problems caused by the business disruptions caused by the government-ordered shut-downs.  

[Mrjeff]

Or council camps will become a vital part for rebuilding.  Many people can't afford $1000.00 for a high adventure trip or national event.  I can see the local camps being used by units in order to keep up the outdoor aspect of Scouting.  I can see troops using these properties to conduct their own summer programs.  I can see individual council's using volunteers exclusively for staffing camps with the help of the local rangers.  And, I can see units being more autonomous and responsible for their own administration.  I guess we'll see.