What If - All High Adventure Camps Cancel

[yknot]

Should we expect updates today from the HA bases? I thought I read that we'd get updates every two weeks -- 1st, 15th, 30th -- but that could have been wishful thinking or a hallucination on my part. 

 

Late edit: just saw Philmont posted something yesterday but I'm more interested in Sea Base

Edited May 15, 2020 by yknot
New info

[69RoadRunner]

6 minutes ago, yknot said:

Should we expect updates today from the HA bases? I thought I read that we'd get updates every two weeks -- 1st, 15th, 30th -- but that could have been wishful thinking or a hallucination on my part. 

 

Late edit: just saw Philmont posted something yesterday but I'm more interested in Sea Base

As we get closer, I suspect the announcements will be much more location-specific rather than coordinated.

[TimB]

9 minutes ago, yknot said:

Should we expect updates today from the HA bases? I thought I read that we'd get updates every two weeks -- 1st, 15th, 30th -- but that could have been wishful thinking or a hallucination on my part. 

 

Late edit: just saw Philmont posted something yesterday but I'm more interested in Sea Base

You are right that Philmont stated they intend to make updates May 15 and June 1. Which is tough to hold fast, when the updates from government do not come in regular intervals. I hope to see something from Philmont today, but am not certain it will be complete. Too many questions unanswered by government officials and those at the BSA who need to respond to an ever-shifting landscape. 

[Cburkhardt]

The Summit will open.  It is a good bet because the BSA has a great and trusting relationship with the state and local governments there.  It also has very advanced medical clinical facilities and emergency transport capabilities because of the Jamboree physical arrangements.  Single tenting of Scouts is easy given the broad fields to camp in and program facilities (such as shooting range and rock climbing faces) are massively over-built for a summer camp.  They can easily spread the Scouts by using every third or fourth program position.  If there is any facility that can handle it and any political relationship that can allow it, it is the Summit.   

[RememberSchiff]

3 minutes ago, Cburkhardt said:

The Summit will open.  It is a good bet because the BSA has a great and trusting relationship with the state and local governments there.  It also has very advanced medical clinical facilities and emergency transport capabilities because of the Jamboree physical arrangements.  Single tenting of Scouts is easy given the broad fields to camp in and program facilities (such as shooting range and rock climbing faces) are massively over-built for a summer camp.  They can easily spread the Scouts by using every third or fourth program position.  If there is any facility that can handle it and any political relationship that can allow it, it is the Summit.   

Not just separation but cleaning becomes the larger issue with shooting. IMHO, handgun shooting should be doable, just clean handgun. Rifle shooting with cheek weld on stock, bench rest setup, prone mats...a lot of National and regional matches have been canceled.

[Cburkhardt]

Good information to know.  As for the range arrangements, they are larger than those on military bases, with hundreds of shooting positions.  I guess they need that when 40,000 scouts are there and all want to shoot.

[69RoadRunner]

Northern Tier has an update for today. Canada locations closed for the summer due to the border closure.  Swim test is pretty much if you've passed in the past you're good.  Part C health form expiration extended. WFA not required.  Guides will be trained.

http://www.ntier.org/Covid-19/

 

Edited May 15, 2020 by 69RoadRunner

[Eagle1993]

Philmont Scout Ranch Update: May 15th

Philmont continues to forge ahead with a July 1 opening date.

Philmont is monitoring to monitor the recommendations from the CDC, NM Governor Lujan Grisham, State and local health departments, and the American Camp Association.

May 15^th updates are below:

• As we prepare for opening on July 1, we know there are potential barriers such as spikes in new cases that could affect this opening plan. Any changes regarding the July 1 opening will be announced no later than June 1. 
• Philmont will be meeting with the NM Department of Health to review the Philmont COVID-19 mitigation and operating plan. We will obtain their suggestions and input and confirm that we can operate within state guidelines.
• There will be changes to programs and itineraries. We will not be utilizing all backcountry camps.  In support of social distancing requirements, elements of programming will be different. Examples include: no opening or closing campfires in base camp, church services, or confined activities such as mine tours. Other activities that involve enclosed spaces will be suspended or altered.  We are still working through the more detailed portions of this planning. 
• Every crew member attending Philmont should bring their own mask (face covering) and a pair of leather gloves.
  • Each crew will be taking part in a conservation project during their trek. Many will also go rock climbing or spar pole climbing.  All these activities require leather gloves which are difficult to sanitize between uses.  Everyone bringing their own gloves will eliminate this sanitation issue.
• All crews that were arriving in June and have been cancelled should make sure they received and responded to the email that was sent to lead advisors and reservation contacts. It has specific information about transferring and cancellations.  It is also posted at https://www.philmontscoutranch.org/coronavirus/
• Participants who fall in the high-risk category (as defined by the CDC) should not attend Philmont this summer. If you are in this category you should stay home.
• The Philmont Covid-19 Mitigation and Operating Plan is being finalized and will be posted on the Philmont website within the next week.
• While we continue to plan and prepare for summer, Philmont will remain closed to the public through June 1^st.

We’d like to thank all crews that replied to the May 1 survey. Please know that our camping registrars are still working diligently to follow up with all remaining crews.

We greatly appreciate the patience of all participants and staff for the 2020 Summer season. We wish you and your families good health as we all work to overcome the effects of the COVID-19 pandemic and Deliver Wilderness Adventures that Last a Lifetime.

 

[TAHAWK]

"As we prepare for opening on July 1, we know there are potential barriers such as spikes in new cases that could affect this opening plan. Any changes regarding the July 1 opening will be announced no later than June 1. "  😶

 

Oh, really?  So if the State orders the reservation closed on June 15, Philmont will announce that development no later than June 1st. or ignore the order? No problem.  BSA is on the job.

 

[Eagle1993]

June 1 seems really late.  I don't understand how they have not already reviewed their plans with the state.  I understand that there could be changes, but Philmont states

"Philmont will be meeting with the NM Department of Health to review the Philmont COVID-19 mitigation and operating plan. We will obtain their suggestions and input and confirm that we can operate within state guidelines. "

… so they do not even have confirmation that they can operate yet?  People are spending a ton of money and time planning, I would think they would have already reviewed this with the state.  I hope they already have the go ahead and just need to close out some details.

 

"Participants who fall in the high-risk category (as defined by the CDC) should not attend Philmont this summer. If you are in this category you should stay home."

CDC states the following are at high risk.  Does this mean Philmont will prevent anyone in the group below, based on their health forms, from going out on a Trek?  Are they going to stop anyone with diabetes or 65 and older?  Are they really going to stop anyone with moderate asthma (so if they see you are going with an inhaler you are out)?  I'm ok with this policy, but they need to make it clear if they plan to enforce this.

 

Based on what we know now, those at high-risk for severe illness from COVID-19 are:

• People 65 years and older
• People who live in a nursing home or long-term care facility

People of all ages with underlying medical conditions, particularly if not well controlled, including:

• People with chronic lung disease or moderate to severe asthma
• People who have serious heart conditions
• People who are immunocompromised
  • Many conditions can cause a person to be immunocompromised, including cancer treatment, smoking, bone marrow or organ transplantation, immune deficiencies, poorly controlled HIV or AIDS, and prolonged use of corticosteroids and other immune weakening medications
• People with severe obesity (body mass index [BMI] of 40 or higher)
• People with diabetes
• People with chronic kidney disease undergoing dialysis
• People with liver disease

[69RoadRunner]

36 minutes ago, TAHAWK said:

"As we prepare for opening on July 1, we know there are potential barriers such as spikes in new cases that could affect this opening plan. Any changes regarding the July 1 opening will be announced no later than June 1. "  😶

 

Oh, really?  So if the State orders the reservation closed on June 15, Philmont will announce that development no later than June 1st. or ignore the order? No problem.  BSA is on the job.

 

To be fair, I don't think that's what they meant. They will comply with state law.  If NM says all is good, but then in mid-June changes to shutting things down, there's no way Philmont can know that in advance.

Any group going to any summer camp has to accept this possibility. If you can't, then you need to take the options for canceling.

Edited May 15, 2020 by 69RoadRunner

[TAHAWK]

On 5/15/2020 at 4:25 PM, 69RoadRunner said:

To be fair, I don't think that's what they meant. They will comply with state law.  If NM says all is good, but then in mid-June changes to shutting things down, there's no way Philmont can know that in advance.

Any group going to any summer camp has to accept this possibility. If you can't, then you need to take the options for canceling.

To be fair, I assume you are correct.  BSA simply has trouble with English and issues statements/promises/rules  that make no sense.  Then they give Scouters no practical way to get clarification.  Certainly council Scouters haven't a clue.  A common council response, as when BSA accidentally  eliminated the rule against alcohol at Scout camps [still not corrected],  is, "What?"  Major example,  a child candidate for Scout rank must "explain the Patrol method," but BSA cannot.  

Edited May 17, 2020 by TAHAWK

[69RoadRunner]

7 hours ago, TAHAWK said:

To be fair, I assume you are correct.  BSA simply has trouble with English and issues statements/promises/rules  that make no sense.  Then they give Scouters no practical way to get clarification.  Certainly council Scouters haven't a clue.  A common council response, as when BSA accidentally  eliminated the rule against alcohol at Scout camps [still not corrected],  is, "What?"  Major example,  a child candidate for Scout rank must "explain the Patrol method," but BSA cannot.  

Do you think BSA or anyone can predict what government actions will occur this summer that affect HA camps? 

[TAHAWK]

5 hours ago, 69RoadRunner said:

Do you think BSA or anyone can predict what government actions will occur this summer that affect HA camps? 

No. Being a mere mortal, I would therefore not say, " Any changes regarding the July 1 opening will be announced no later than June 1. "  

[Eagle1993]

Philmont's Facebook page is pretty active since the May 15 update.  

- They are working on releasing the COVID Mitigation and Operation plan within 1 week (including mask requirements)

- They were asked directly about New Mexico's requirement that youth summer programs are limited to "local geographic area only".  Philmont's response "...The ranch management is working with state officials to determine our classification and what we'll be allowed to do."