What If - All High Adventure Camps Cancel

[TimB]

And we lost one adult. Down to 6 scouts and 2 adults. Worried now about what happens if anyone gets a fever on the trail - or in the two weeks before the trek. How will Philmont pre-screen or handle those possibilities? I hear that on the 15th, we will get more information on specifics of Philmont's plan. 

[xj-boonie]

1 hour ago, TimB said:

And we lost one adult. Down to 6 scouts and 2 adults. Worried now about what happens if anyone gets a fever on the trail - or in the two weeks before the trek. How will Philmont pre-screen or handle those possibilities? I hear that on the 15th, we will get more information on specifics of Philmont's plan. 

wouldn't you treat a fever on the trail in the same way you would 6 months ago?  A fever in an of itself is just one symptom and could be a number of things.  There is a lot that can go wrong on the trail... heat exhaustion, altitude sickness, lost adult, axe to the leg, not eating enough and collapsing (thankfully these were not all on the same trip!).

The 2-4 weeks before the trip are nerve wracking - what if someone get's hurt or sick?  Last year we had a scout break his arm 4 weeks before Sea Base, which meant he couldn't go at all (and a bummer for him being his last chance).  We were lucky to find a scout at the last minute that could fill in for him.

[TimB]

2 minutes ago, xj-boonie said:

wouldn't you treat a fever on the trail in the same way you would 6 months ago?  A fever in an of itself is just one symptom and could be a number of things.  There is a lot that can go wrong on the trail... heat exhaustion, altitude sickness, lost adult, axe to the leg, not eating enough and collapsing (thankfully these were not all on the same trip!).

The 2-4 weeks before the trip are nerve wracking - what if someone get's hurt or sick?  Last year we had a scout break his arm 4 weeks before Sea Base, which meant he couldn't go at all (and a bummer for him being his last chance).  We were lucky to find a scout at the last minute that could fill in for him.

The question about the fever may be different now. Would any symptom that could possibly be related to Covid be handled differently? For other illnesses, we have clear medicines and treatments. For Covid, we do not. Does that mean we will have to treat the possibility of Covid infection differently? While most might say "he has just a regular fever" on the trek, and ignore the possibility of Covid, would the BSA set parameters for what we "should" do to shift liability over to the adult who makes that determination?

[Eagle1993]

Any update from Philmont given the New Mexico extension of stay at home order (until May 31)?  Is there any way Philmont can go on given the rules introduced here? 

https://cv.nmhealth.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/NM-COVID-Guidance-for-Summer-Youth-Programs.pdf

 

Summer Program Overview: E-learning or distance learning opportunities should be provided for all students when possible as an alternative to in person programs. In person summer programs and sports camps will be restricted to 5:1 child to adult ratios for children who live in the local geographic area only. Grab and Go meal sites for children will continue throughout the summer. 

[69RoadRunner]

40 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

Any update from Philmont given the New Mexico extension of stay at home order (until May 31)?  Is there any way Philmont can go on given the rules introduced here? 

https://cv.nmhealth.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/NM-COVID-Guidance-for-Summer-Youth-Programs.pdf

 

Summer Program Overview: E-learning or distance learning opportunities should be provided for all students when possible as an alternative to in person programs. In person summer programs and sports camps will be restricted to 5:1 child to adult ratios for children who live in the local geographic area only. Grab and Go meal sites for children will continue throughout the summer. 

That's a good question. Philmont is a different animal and BSA has some political pull.  They MIGHT get an exception.

Edited May 14, 2020 by 69RoadRunner

[Sniktaw]

1 hour ago, 69RoadRunner said:

That's a good question. Philmont is a different animal and BSA has some political pull.  They MIGHT get an exception.

In NM we are on stay at home orders until there is a vaccine.

Restaurants are still not allowed sit down service, and masks in public are mandatory.

I cannot imagine our governor welcoming visitors from out of state.

Also, all big announcements are made at the last minute. Church services were cancelled the day before Easter. Restaurants were under the impression that they might be able to open on Friday, until the governor's news conference at 4:00 on Wednesday.

Forget planning and preparation.

[TimB]

Our crew is 3:1 scout to scouter ratio. That’s better than the NM requests. We will be able to trek with each individual in own tent. Though BlueSky has us sharing hotel rooms and transportation. But we will be flying in, with a change of planes en route. I still don’t have a read on if that will make us acceptable to trek or not. And then if we will have restrictions upon returning. Selfishly I want to go for my boy - and admittedly a bit for me. But it seems we may not get a definite yes or no until we step onto the trail. It feels like the winds can shift that quickly. 

[Eagle1993]

1 minute ago, TimB said:

Our crew is 3:1 scout to scouter ratio. That’s better than the NM requests. We will be able to trek with each individual in own tent. Though BlueSky has us sharing hotel rooms and transportation. But we will be flying in, with a change of planes en route. I still don’t have a read on if that will make us acceptable to trek or not. And then if we will have restrictions upon returning. Selfishly I want to go for my boy - and admittedly a bit for me. But it seems we may not get a definite yes or no until we step onto the trail. It feels like the winds can shift that quickly. 

But New Mexico is stating local youth only … so the governor would have to make an acceptation for Philmont.

They also have a 14 day quarantine for out of state arrivals at the airport.  I would expect that would end by the May 31, but who knows.

We have two crews going late July by train.  Our June date at summer camp was just cancelled, so waiting to see what happens here.  I hope it still happens for the scouts as any cancellation would mean some scouts will never have the opportunity again.

[TimB]

3 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

But New Mexico is stating local youth only … so the governor would have to make an acceptation for Philmont.

They also have a 14 day quarantine for out of state arrivals at the airport.  I would expect that would end by the May 31, but who knows.

We have two crews going late July by train.  Our June date at summer camp was just cancelled, so waiting to see what happens here.  I hope it still happens for the scouts as any cancellation would mean some scouts will never have the opportunity again.

Wait. They have a 14 day quarantine? Why didn’t our crew leaders know that? We arrive on the 6th of July for a trek start on the 8th and support from Blue Sky while there. I can’t easily reconcile the message to the boys of “yeah that’s the rules, but we decided they don’t apply to us.”

[69RoadRunner]

41 minutes ago, TimB said:

Wait. They have a 14 day quarantine? Why didn’t our crew leaders know that? We arrive on the 6th of July for a trek start on the 8th and support from Blue Sky while there. I can’t easily reconcile the message to the boys of “yeah that’s the rules, but we decided they don’t apply to us.”

If that requirement isn't removed by July 1, Philmont will cancel treks.  Really, that requirement needs to end much sooner than that for rangers and staff flying in to be there in time to be trained.

Edited May 14, 2020 by 69RoadRunner

[Eagle1993]

30 minutes ago, 69RoadRunner said:

If that requirement isn't removed by July 1, Philmont will cancel treks.  Really, that requirement needs to end much sooner than that for rangers and staff flying in to be there in time to be trained.

At this point, it looks like it is in place until May 31.

https://cv.nmhealth.org/2020/05/13/stay-at-home-order-extended/

WHAT REMAINS THE SAME:

• New Mexicans must remain home except for outings essential for health, safety and welfare, especially elderly and vulnerable individuals. If you must leave home, gatherings of more than five people remain prohibited and 6 feet of physical distance from others must be maintained.
• Large retailers like big-box stores and grocery stores will continue operating at 20 percent capacity as determined by fire code.
• Locations and services where high-intensity contact is unavoidable – such as gyms, salons and dine-in service at restaurants and bars – will remain temporarily closed. Limited in-person operations for those types of businesses could be included in the next modification of the public health order, as soon as early June, depending on New Mexico’s rate of COVID-19 transmission, testing capacity and other gating criteria.
• Other high-intensity contact services that must remain closed include indoor malls, massage and tattoo parlors, theaters, casinos.
• 14-day quarantine order remains in place for out-of-state airport arrivals.
• Vacation rentals prohibited to out-of-state residents.
• Visits to long-term care and other congregate care facilities remain restricted.

[69RoadRunner]

1 minute ago, Eagle1993 said:

At this point, it looks like it is in place until May 31.

https://cv.nmhealth.org/2020/05/13/stay-at-home-order-extended/

WHAT REMAINS THE SAME:

• New Mexicans must remain home except for outings essential for health, safety and welfare, especially elderly and vulnerable individuals. If you must leave home, gatherings of more than five people remain prohibited and 6 feet of physical distance from others must be maintained.
• Large retailers like big-box stores and grocery stores will continue operating at 20 percent capacity as determined by fire code.
• Locations and services where high-intensity contact is unavoidable – such as gyms, salons and dine-in service at restaurants and bars – will remain temporarily closed. Limited in-person operations for those types of businesses could be included in the next modification of the public health order, as soon as early June, depending on New Mexico’s rate of COVID-19 transmission, testing capacity and other gating criteria.
• Other high-intensity contact services that must remain closed include indoor malls, massage and tattoo parlors, theaters, casinos.
• 14-day quarantine order remains in place for out-of-state airport arrivals.
• Vacation rentals prohibited to out-of-state residents.
• Visits to long-term care and other congregate care facilities remain restricted.

Not to play lawyerball, but a large percentage of Phlying Philmonters fly into Denver and drive into NM.

If you fly in May 31, is it a 1 day quarantine, increasing by 1 as you go back for 14 days into May?

[xj-boonie]

8 hours ago, Sniktaw said:

In NM we are on stay at home orders until there is a vaccine.

Restaurants are still not allowed sit down service, and masks in public are mandatory.

I cannot imagine our governor welcoming visitors from out of state.

Also, all big announcements are made at the last minute. Church services were cancelled the day before Easter. Restaurants were under the impression that they might be able to open on Friday, until the governor's news conference at 4:00 on Wednesday.

Forget planning and preparation.

Well that makes no sense - it could take years to make a vaccine, and there is no evidence that a vaccine will ever be effective.

[TAHAWK]

38 minutes ago, xj-boonie said:

Well that makes no sense - it could take years to make a vaccine, and there is no evidence that a vaccine will ever be effective.

MERS and SARS are caused by a Corona virus.  They spread around the World, reaching the U.S.  There were no shutdowns. and no vaccine.  SARS was notably fatal - about 10%. Yet normal life activities continued.

[Sniktaw]

7 hours ago, xj-boonie said:

Well that makes no sense - it could take years to make a vaccine, and there is no evidence that a vaccine will ever be effective.

I wish someone would tell our governor that. But then, practicality has never been her strong suit.