Youth protection - tenting at Philmont

[dedkad]

Philmont recommends two-person tents instead of singles to reduce footprint and I read elsewhere on this forum that tenting with your son is discouraged at Philmont. I need help on how best to plan for this "requirement" so we aren't forced into a last minute change of plans when we arrive at Philmont.

We have 11 people going: Three male adults, one female adult (all adults have a son going on trip, no adults are related), one male "youth" who will be 18 (parent not going), and six male youth under 18.

Here are my questions:

1. 18-year olds can attend Philmont as a youth or adult. As we already had four adults going (the max allowed), we registered him as a youth for Philmont. He is also registered as a youth in the troop since he just turned 18 this year. Can he share a tent with a 16 or 17 year old or will he need to tent alone since he is technically adult-aged?

2. If we are faced with the situation of odd numbers of youth and adults, would Philmont allow one-person tents for a scout and an adult or would they force a scout to sleep with his parent to keep as many people in two-person tents as possible?

3. If scout actually wants to sleep with parent, would they allow that?

OPTION 1:

One-person tents: female adult, male adult, 18-year old "youth" = 3 total

Two-person tents: two male adults, three pairs of scouts = 4 total

OPTION 2:

One-person tents: one adult = 1 total

Two-person tents: two male adults, one female or male adult with son, one 18-year old with a 16 or 17-year old, two pairs of scouts = 4 total

There are other possible options I can  think of depending on what the answers are to my questions above, but I'll leave it at this for now.

[69RoadRunner]

1. 18 year old cannot tent with those under 18, I believe.  The 18 year old can count as youth for the ratio purposes (need more youth than adults) but not YPT.

2. If you have an odd number of youth, you can either take a 3 person tent or 1 youth can tent alone.  We had a youth tent alone. Use your judgment, but typically an older youth would make the best choice.

3. I don't think they'll prevent you, but try to not have the youth sleep with a parent. It's part of the "this is their trip and you're on vacation" aspect of Philmont.  

Female must be solo.  18 year old I believe could tent with another adult.

You have an unusual situation, but YPT rules must be followed.  Since you have so many necessary solo tents, I'd take a 3 person tent for the youth to at least eliminate 1 solo.

Some campsites are cramped, but not as bad as people led me to believe. You can make it work. The worst part of site selection for me was that there is no such thing as a level spot.  😉

[xj-boonie]

But can't the female adult tent with her own son?

[Thunderbird]

On 3/4/2020 at 1:55 AM, dedkad said:

1. 18-year olds can attend Philmont as a youth or adult. As we already had four adults going (the max allowed), we registered him as a youth for Philmont. He is also registered as a youth in the troop since he just turned 18 this year. Can he share a tent with a 16 or 17 year old or will he need to tent alone since he is technically adult-aged?

 

Does this Scout have an approved time extension to continue working towards Eagle Scout rank?  Or has he already earned Eagle Scout rank and has turned 18?

The BSA requires all all Venturing, Exploring, and Sea Scouting participants 18 years old but not yet 21 years old to complete an adult application, criminal background check disclosure/authorization form, and Youth Protection Training.  I believe they require the same of 18-year-olds in troops who have approved time extensions to continue working towards the Eagle Scout rank (although the registration position name and code might be different: Unit Participant vs. Venturing Participant).

If the Scout already earned Eagle Scout rank, then I believe he has to register as an Assistant Scoutmaster or Unit College Scouter Reserve with the troop.  But I would highly recommend that you talk to your council Registrar about this to make sure that you are following the BSA's YPT and registration rules.

For YPT purposes, he cannot tent with a 16 or 17-year-old, because he is legally an adult.

Going by the Guide to Safe Scouting, parents do not share tents with their children in older Scout programs (Scouts BSA, Venturing, Sea Scouts) because they are youth-led programs.  You might be able to get an exception to this rule from your Scout Executive and Philmont, but I would ask and get it approved well before your trip.

 

[69RoadRunner]

5 hours ago, xj-boonie said:

But can't the female adult tent with her own son?

Even if they can, they shouldn't.

I hope Philmont is able to operate this summer.  This particular crew is just going to have some solo tenters. It's fine. All you're doing is sleeping.

[HashTagScouts]

4 hours ago, Thunderbird said:

 

Does this Scout have an approved time extension to continue working towards Eagle Scout rank?  Or has he already earned Eagle Scout rank and has turned 18?

The BSA requires all all Venturing, Exploring, and Sea Scouting participants 18 years old but not yet 21 years old to complete an adult application, criminal background check disclosure/authorization form, and Youth Protection Training.  I believe they require the same of 18-year-olds in troops who have approved time extensions to continue working towards the Eagle Scout rank (although the registration position name and code might be different: Unit Participant vs. Venturing Participant).

If the Scout already earned Eagle Scout rank, then I believe he has to register as an Assistant Scoutmaster or Unit College Scouter Reserve with the troop.  But I would highly recommend that you talk to your council Registrar about this to make sure that you are following the BSA's YPT and registration rules.

For YPT purposes, he cannot tent with a 16 or 17-year-old, because he is legally an adult.

Going by the Guide to Safe Scouting, parents do not share tents with their children in older Scout programs (Scouts BSA, Venturing, Sea Scouts) because they are youth-led programs.  You might be able to get an exception to this rule from your Scout Executive and Philmont, but I would ask and get it approved well before your trip.

 

Correct- the day they turn 18, they should have YPT and submit adult app with background check authorization.  They are an adult at that point.

[Sentinel947]

Been to Philmont twice. 

First things first, your 18 year old is an adult, must have YPT and cannot tent with youth. Whether you have him play a youth or adult role is up to you and him, but he must always follow YPT. Just like if he was an over 18 participant on NYLT Staff, OA, or a Venturing crew.  

In my 2015 trek, we had 5 adult males. 7 male youth. We had 2 adults share a tent. 2 went solo(one of our adults was 6'6, and we didn't have a two man tent that would fit him and another adult), and 1 adult shared a tent with his son. The 6 other youth split into two man tents. Don't break YPT with the tent situation, and don't over think it.

My gut is Philmont would prefer adults to tent solo over youth tenting solo due to the buddy system. 

I'd put the 6 youth in two man tents. I'd have the adult female sleep in her own tent. And have the adult men buddy up in two man tents unless the 18 year old or the adults are uncomfortable sharing a tent. In that case, you'd have two more solo tents. 

Edited April 3, 2020 by Sentinel947