YP and allowing actual Patrol Method?

[TAHAWK]

Whatever we think about the BSA rules, their language is unusually clear for BSA  - "required,"  not "preferred."

Youth Protection and Adult Leadership

Scouting’s Barriers to Abuse

The BSA has adopted the following policies for the safety and well-being of its members. These policies primarily protect youth members; however, they also serve to protect adult leaders. All parents and caregivers should understand that our leaders are to abide by these safeguards. Parents and youth are strongly encouraged to use these safeguards outside the Scouting program. Registered leaders must follow these guidelines with all Scouting youth outside of Scouting activities.

...

Adult Supervision

Two registered adult leaders 21 years of age or over are required at all Scouting activities, including meetings. There must be a registered female adult leader 21 years of age or over in every unit serving females. A registered female adult leader 21 years of age or over must be present for any activity involving female youth. Notwithstanding the minimum leader requirements, age- and program-appropriate supervision must always be provided. 

https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss01/ [emphasis added]

 

However, the clear language has at least two exceptions:

Q:  The Barriers to Abuse say that there must be two registered adults present for all Scouting activities and meetings.  Does that include merit badge counseling? Fund-raising events?

A. Yes. However, the parent or legal guardian of the Scout may serve as the second adult. This parent or legal guardian does not have to be a registered leader.

https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/yp-faqs/

 

[elitts]

13 minutes ago, David CO said:

Schools don't say preference.  The most common word used by schools is expectation.  Our expectation is...

I don't agree that it is never going to happen.  Most of the time, students and scouts will rise up to meet the expectations.  So let's not set the bar too low.  We can have consequences for those who don't meet the expectations.  

If you find a standard sized school that manages to go a whole school year with 100% student attendance and attentiveness where no one ever got upset with anyone else, I think you'll find you are in the Twilight Zone (or possible on the planet Camazotz).

 

[elitts]

11 minutes ago, TAHAWK said:

Whatever we think about the BSA rules, their language is unusually clear for BSA  - "required,"  not "preferred."

 

Yes, that word is clear.  I don't think anyone is arguing about whether or not they want 2 registered leaders at any Scouting activity.  Unfortunately, that one point of clarity doesn't answer the whole question.

We still need to know what a "Scouting activity" is.  Is "Summer Camp" the activity?  Is gathering wood in the forest an activity?  What about fetching water?  What about hiking from the base camp to the mess hall?  If hiking from the base camp to the mess hall is an activity, what about hiking to the bathhouse?  If hiking to the bathhouse isn't an activity, how about taking a short walk to clear your head?  How far can you travel before that walk turns into a hike?

Then once we know what constitutes a "Scouting activity" is, we still need to know what they mean by "at".  When my son is in class, he's "at school".  When he's eating lunch in the cafeteria, he's "at school".  When he's at football practice in the stadium, he's still "at school".  So if a troop meeting is going on upstairs and one of the only two adults is downstairs is that adult still "at" the meeting?  What about when the meeting breaks into patrols an one group goes outside, one goes to the basement and one stays in the main room; do we still need two adults or 6?

I mean, there are actually people out there who think "2 Deep Leadership" means "No scout should ever be out of the sight of two adults unless they are in the bathroom or their tent".

[TAHAWK]

Really? 

Two deep leadership has been explained over and over.  But Einstein was right. 

[qwazse]

So, at summer camp we had two adult leaders and two dozen scouts with diverse MB objectives. Plus, I wanted to re-update my lifeguard and CPR certifications, and the other leader had just joined our troop as his son crossed over, so he obviously wanted to be nearby for those scouts. Basically, there was no following older scouts around unless they were in the same direction as the pool or the one or two scouters who I knew from WSJ. If the boys did not requisition supplies from the camp QM, we didn't get it. If they didn't request low-sugar cereal from the dining hall, I didn't eat it. If camp was untidy, they took the hit on inspection. I might pick up litter in my path, but that was it.

The camp staff knew that there were just two of us, and ours was the biggest troop there. Although they were busy sanitizing the snot out of everything, they encouraged us and understood that we'd appreciate their "one eye" on our boys.

It was not pretty. We got noise complaints. I told the boys to keep their micro boom boxes off the trails, and sing because nobody will complain about scouts singing. They said they couldn't remember the words without the music. So, every morning I taught them the words to a pop song:

• Queen: stomp stomp clap ... stomp stomp clap ... "I'm a little tea pot short and stout ..."
• Led Zeplin: [humming intro to "rising sun" ]... ba da bum ... "I am a little tea pot ..."
• The Animals: "I'm a little tea pot short and stout ...
• By day four, they ran flags like clockwork and dismissed the troop with no interference from adults.

Our boys pushed boundaries, on their own asking staff to allow them to project movies before quiet hours. (One scout's dad does tech for a school that had no use for 800' of extension chord.) Much to my chagrin, senior staff approved with enthusiasm. Did it get out of hand? According to a neighboring troop (easily 150 yards away), yes.

On the other hand, the scouts who you can hear, or whose flashlights are ruining your star-watching, are rarely the problem.

[TAHAWK]

Don't you know any group popular in the last  thirty years?   stomp stomp clap . 

 

 

[InquisitiveScouter]

On 7/24/2020 at 11:17 AM, elitts said:

Either show me where it's published in the official guidelines or manuals or stop talking to me about it.

Yes!

[TAHAWK]

 Stomp stomp clap .

[qwazse]

16 hours ago, TAHAWK said:

Don't you know any group popular in the last  thirty years?   stomp stomp clap . 

@TAHAWK, it's not me, it's the kids' earworms. This lot is stuck in the 7th and 8th decade of the last century.

Stairway wasn't on my radar until I "appeared" in the midst of their hammock nest (all week, they kept wondering how I could do that) to enforce lights out, and that's the disk they were spinning.

[TAHAWK]

3 hours ago, qwazse said:

@TAHAWK, it's not me, it's the kids' earworms. This lot is stuck in the 7th and 8th decade of the last century.

Stairway wasn't on my radar until I "appeared" in the midst of their hammock nest (all week, they kept wondering how I could do that) to enforce lights out, and that's the disk they were spinning.

Oh yah.  Back when you could understand the words.  

[RememberSchiff]

And there's a wino down the road. 

Edited July 28, 2020 by RememberSchiff