Summer Camps and the Coronavirus

[ItsBrian]

2 hours ago, Sentinel947 said:

My state currently has a 14 day quarantine for people traveling back to the state from elsewhere. That might be possible for out of state staff. Not really possible for out of state campers. 

That would be hard to work around. My camp would lose at least 5 staff members, plus the health officer (me). Not too sure how a 14 day quarantine would work at a camp for staff.

Edited April 17, 2020 by ItsBrian

[shingobeek]

What about council camps that are out of state?

[qwazse]

14 hours ago, Sentinel947 said:

My state currently has a 14 day quarantine for people traveling back to the state from elsewhere. That might be possible for out of state staff. Not really possible for out of state campers. 

That's a strong argument for camps moving to 14-day sessions.

[InquisitiveScouter]

Qwazse,

That would be brilliant.  I'm in, but don't think most leaders would have the time available when the economy opens back up.  And leaders swapping out during the session would go against the purpose of the extended camp.

[HashTagScouts]

14 day camp would require no going home over that weekend, and no one coming in and out during the 14 days.  Strain on adults being able to do it, and labor laws on staff would be a massive obstacle.  Mad struggles around these parts getting full-time health officers as it is, now you'd need to have two so that one can get rest breaks.  Don't see it being practical for most.  Now, the nostalgic part of me harkens back to not so many decades ago that camp was typically a 3 week event around here in New England...

[Sentinel947]

Camps in my council are moving forward with planning. I'm still not optimistic they can or should open at all. They did extend the payment deadline till June 1st, and created a very generous refund/cancellation policy. 

[5thGenTexan]

We have Cub Day Camp June 5th and  Resident Camp (our session starts June 7th) running through June / July.  I personally don't see it happening, and personally I am not sure if I am going to be ready to go spend half a week with people I don't know where they have been and crowding in the dining hall 3 times a day.  Not just yet anyway.

[yknot]

It doesn't do any harm to try to plan for camp openings this summer but I can't see it happening in most parts of the country.

Much as it pains me, I think scout camps are exactly the kind of camp that should not open this summer in most areas. Scout camps in our region typically draw from a large geographic area, interstate in some cases, and rely on unit parental volunteers who change weekly, if not daily.  The contact tracing for it would be mind boggling. Compare this to local rec or institutional linked camps where you might draw kids from one town or a grouping of towns or a county. The staff and support in these kinds of camps is also usually closed -- the same people in the same positions all summer vs. the scout model where a portion changes weekly to daily.
 

[MattR]

23 hours ago, qwazse said:

That's a strong argument for camps moving to 14-day sessions.

I don't understand your logic. Camp is not the same as quarantine. Not everyone will get the virus within the first day or so. With 250 people, one infected person and a 33% increase daily, after 14 days only about 50 people will be infected. Roughly 2/3 of those will have been infected within the last 4 days and they will all be going home while infected.

[BBQ]

Are BSA and local councils being good citizens, helpful to others, courteous to vulnerable members of society, and kind to others by proceeding forward with summer camps? The Circle Ten Trevor Reeves-Jones Scout Camp, and I imagine others, have said they intended to proceed forward with camp this summer, but they don’t offer any mitigation plans for dealing with COVID-19.

Perhaps I am the only one whole feels odd while filling out medical forms A, B, C with questions about more fortunately uncommon diseases in the US, and yet there is no check box for the COVID-19 immunization (which I know doesn’t exist) or an antibody test, or taking a COVID-19 test just before arriving at camp, but this COVID-19 is much more likely to be brought into a camp and spread than any other item on the form.

Searching the internet, I’ve seen other non-Scout camps at least try to mitigate the risk by taking steps like taking everyone’s temperature when arriving on-site, making staff show up two weeks early, closing cafeterias to switch to campsite meals, prohibiting visitors and parent days, cancelling all camp-wide gatherings like campfires and flag ceremonies, or changing programs to create mini non-interacting groups. I haven’t seen evidence of Scout Camps taking precautionary steps, at least not from TRJ.

Even with precautionary steps, the risk remains high. Studies have shown that 50-60% of those with COVID-19 are a “Typhoid Mary”, spreading the virus without showing symptoms including a temperature. Many have proposed that companies with large staffs will have to have access to rapid testing of COVID-19 before allowing employees to work closely. Isn’t a camp with 400+ people similar in situation?

While timelines are still in flux, the President’s 3 phase program may mean that some areas are still in phase 2, limiting gatherings to 50 people. I think almost every Scout camp is larger than that. While other camps may be in areas in phase 3, the Scouts are not all from the local area. Most Scouts go to a camp in another county. Some have said that summer school cannot be held, so why is camp any better? Others are preparing for cancellation of school in the fall, or reducing classroom populations by half by alternating school days.

As a Scout leader, I am concerned that BSA and the councils are not showing leadership. Leaders are also parents. Perhaps BSA is creating a game of chicken to keep the camp deposits. Are you concerned about your child’s health, or more likely, coming home and spreading COVID-19 to other family members even if the child has no symptoms?

[desertrat77]

@BBQ, welcome to Scouter.com!

[John-in-KC]

1 hour ago, BBQ said:

AAs a Scout leader, I am concerned that BSA and the councils are not showing leadership.

I sadly agree.  First, I hope the Council and National liability carriers are giving non negotiable guidance!  Second, I pray no corona outbreaks happen During or after camp, because those families will OWN their councils. 

[5thGenTexan]

13 minutes ago, John-in-KC said:

I sadly agree.  First, I hope the Council and National liability carriers are giving non negotiable guidance!  Second, I pray no corona outbreaks happen During or after camp, because those families will OWN their councils. 

I think it could be worse than that.  If an outbreak occurs as a result of Scouts going to camp this summer it could be the dirt thrown on the coffin of the BSA.

[malraux]

Too be fair, I think most camps are waiting till the last minute to cancel. Thus far personally, I’ve only had one camp cancel for my kids this summer, and it was an early June camp. Technically our school is supposed to go back May 4th. That said, at least for day camp no one is even signing up, so the question of if we are having camp is kinda moot. My impression is that resident camp is the same way. 

[Eagle94-A1]

I saw what happened when 1 Scout brought a GO bug to camp:  Over 200 people infected and it lasted about 2 weeks. We were almost shut down.