Summer Camps and the Coronavirus

[fred8033]

On 5/12/2020 at 3:29 PM, 5thGenTexan said:

This?

 

https://apnews.com/7a00d5fba3249e573d2ead4bd323a4d4

 

 

"local area" ... I always love vague terms.  What is local?  I'm assuming a "state" is not "local".   I'd agree a neighborhood is "local".  Probably also a city.  Maybe a county.  Our council is large (many counties) and our troop camps are all outside our council area or even outside the state.  I'd argue none of our summer camps can meet the expectation of "local".

Question ... Am I the only one tripping and falling over the title "Scouts BSA"?  It's easy to say Cub Scout camps.  Or Venturing activities.  Or Sea Scouts.  But when I say "Scouts BSA" I feel I always need to include a reference to "troops" to avoid confusion on whether I mean the larger organization or the 11-17 year old program.  I feel like we are looking at another program rename / restructuring within the next several years to solve the confusion. 

 

 

 

Edited May 14, 2020 by fred8033

[qwazse]

4 hours ago, yknot said:

This is a nice story for scouting but on the other hand it highlights the concern that we don't have a real handle on this virus or know what it can do in kids:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/14/us/teenager-cardiac-arrest-coronavirus-illness-trnd/index.html

Temperature checks, diagnostic tests, and antibody tests would have been useless in this scenario. There are now hundreds of cases of pediatric effects like this in Europe and the U.S.  Possible infection is not being picked up until after an acute event, if at all, but there still seems to be a link.  Communicable disease plans can't really manage this type of infection in a camp or group setting. 

What I am about to say is in no way an attempt to minimize the current contagion: all natural viral infections can find their way to the heart weeks after recovery. The 2018-2019 flu vaccines got a bad rep for their lack of efficacy, and accordingly my brother-in-law and his wife passed on them -- swearing by the vitamin supplements. They got hit bad the week before Christmas and by March, his heart went into a-fib requiring hospitalization. One of the most significant benefits of influenza vaccines -- even when they don't knock out every strain of virus that comes our way --- is the dramatic reduction in subsequent cardiac complications.

Most years, we don't think much of this by the time summer camp rolls around because most kids who weren't vaccinated will have had their infections 6 months earlier and are well past the window where, for some of them, the infection would rebound in myocardium. Basically, those heart attacks are more likely to happen in the school gym than on a weekend camp. Given that any given scout's coovid-19 infection would have been more recent, the cardiac risk window will fall in a very active outdoor season. This begs the question ... do we want our youth to be home alone, or around other scouts should one of them has a heart attack? On the other hand, how far away from major trauma centers do we want them to be?

[5thGenTexan]

3 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

 

"local area" ... I always love vague terms.  What is local?  I'm assuming a "state" is not "local".   I'd agree a neighborhood is "local".  Probably also a city.  Maybe a county.  Our council is large (many counties) and our troop camps are all outside our council area or even outside the state.  I'd argue none of our summer camps can meet the expectation of "local".

Question ... Am I the only one tripping and falling over the title "Scouts BSA"?  It's easy to say Cub Scout camps.  Or Venturing activities.  Or Sea Scouts.  But when I say "Scouts BSA" I feel I always need to include a reference to "troops" to avoid confusion on whether I mean the larger organization or the 11-17 year old program.  I feel like we are looking at another program rename / restructuring within the next several years. 

 

 

 

This is "local"  for me.  That is Circle Ten Council.  Those are the counties that could potentially attend Webelos / Cub Resident Camp beginning June 1.  As stated above, our Resident Camp is still on schedule with that pool of Scouts / Adults.  I still havent visited family during this, much less being around people from several counties for 3 days.

 

[BBQ]

My son's troop is not in any of those counties, and they are heading to a Circle Ten summer camp, so even if you interpret "local" to mean a council, they are not trying to accomplish that.

I think the CDC left "local" vague so that it could appropriately be defined for every situation.  That unfortunately assumed that a person working towards the same goals was doing the interpretation.  In some areas, local = city is too large.  Consider the area and population of Houston.    In other places, you could put several counties together and you wouldn't reach the population in one neighborhood of Houston.   

If Scout camps were wanting to proceed forward in a safe(r) manner, they should designate a week for each local area.   Using the map above as an example, week 1 would be the brown area, week 2 would be the purple, week 3 red, etc.   Troops can't pick the week; you either go on the "local" week or don't go.  Out of council troops are not allowed.  Even then, I would restructure camp to be completely patrol based.  A patrol travels together, or has the merit badge come to them, through all merit badges and cooks and eats together.  Everyone in the patrol takes all of the same activities.  And the patrols never intermingle.  

Yes, this is change.  It is different.  It is a disruption. It is harder.  It is not the way we've always done it.   These are new times.  We should be teaching Scouts how to react and adapt rather than pretending the problem doesn't exist.   And even then, it is okay to say the greatest service we can provide to the community is to stay home.

 

[sri_oa161]

Blue Ridge Mountains Council just sent out word that they are cancelling all Summer Camp sessions at their two base camps and Claytor Lake.  However, they said they have made arrangements for any unit currently signed up for camp to instead go to The Summit for a week at the same cost as council camp.  Or the unit can move their fees to 2021 and go to regular camp in 2021, but at the cost for 2020. 

[Eagle1993]

8 minutes ago, sri_oa161 said:

Blue Ridge Mountains Council just sent out word that they are cancelling all Summer Camp sessions at their two base camps and Claytor Lake.  However, they said they have made arrangements for any unit currently signed up for camp to instead go to The Summit for a week at the same cost as council camp.  Or the unit can move their fees to 2021 and go to regular camp in 2021, but at the cost for 2020. 

Has anyone gone to Summit for summer camp?  Any thoughts on the experience?

[ScouterStL]

The Greater St. Louis Area Council cancelled all summer camps this week and included this comment regarding scout property usage:

Due to the ever-changing situation surrounding COVID-19, we have made the difficult decision to cancel our traditional camp operations this summer. (Please see the footnote below regarding refunds.)

Instead, we will open many of our summer camp facilities to individual families to enjoy the great outdoors safely with self-guided family camping and day trip activities. Reservations will be limited to support proper social distancing and available on a first-come, first-served basis. 

[69RoadRunner]

57 minutes ago, sri_oa161 said:

Blue Ridge Mountains Council just sent out word that they are cancelling all Summer Camp sessions at their two base camps and Claytor Lake.  However, they said they have made arrangements for any unit currently signed up for camp to instead go to The Summit for a week at the same cost as council camp.  Or the unit can move their fees to 2021 and go to regular camp in 2021, but at the cost for 2020. 

We were set to do Powhattan there. We're discussing taking the option of Summit this summer.  Their merit badge schedule looks odd to me. Either I'm reading it wrong or they're doing some, like canoeing, in 3 hours.

Here's the schedule.  Am I reading it right that canoeing is done in 3 hours?

http://44qx633l2wnm2ire6p28zc8u-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/JSC-2020-Program-Schedule.pdf

Edited May 14, 2020 by 69RoadRunner

[desertrat77]

@ScouterStL, welcome to Scouter.com!

[sri_oa161]

Looks like on the schedule from the Summit, Canoeing is Thursday morning 9-12 and Thursday afternoon 1-4.

Maybe you have to do both sessions.

Edited May 14, 2020 by sri_oa161

[69RoadRunner]

Just now, sri_oa161 said:

Looks like on the schedule from the Summit, Canoeing is Thursday morning 9-12 and Thursday afternoon 1-4.

I do see that now.  Thanks.

[sri_oa161]

Still, only 6 hours for the badge.

[JoeBob]

8 minutes ago, 69RoadRunner said:

Am I reading it right that canoeing is done in 3 hours?

J-stroke, Draw, Pry, Bow-Rudder and Brace can probably be mastered in 15 minutes, right?  Does it matter if the scouts can't get the boat to go straight enough to get back to the dock?

Deep water self-rescue, assisted rescue, and re-entry might take half an hour.  To demonstrate.

But wait!  Looks at the bottom of the schedule:

*Must be present at the beginning of each scheduled program to complete badge *

* Must be present during all blocks of program or badge to complete it *

Dang fuddy-duddies interfering with our water fun.

[Eagle94-A1]

13 minutes ago, JoeBob said:

J-stroke, Draw, Pry, Bow-Rudder and Brace can probably be mastered in 15 minutes, right?  Does it matter if the scouts can't get the boat to go straight enough to get back to the dock?

Deep water self-rescue, assisted rescue, and re-entry might take half an hour.  To demonstrate.

But wait!  Looks at the bottom of the schedule:

*Must be present at the beginning of each scheduled program to complete badge *

* Must be present during all blocks of program or badge to complete it *

Dang fuddy-duddies interfering with our water fun.

SO all a Scout needs to do is attend class and he gets a MB? SIGN MY HOODLUMS UP! (sarcasm off)

I so wish "Master the skills" of day and before, and the " The badge represents what a Scout CAN DO, not what he has done" attitude prior to 2010 were still the norm, and not 'one and done."

The Summit's  "attend class, get a badge" attitude is why my old troop had major issues on a canoe trip. We had a bunch of Scouts who "earned" Canoeing in 2 one hour sessions, and goofed off the rest of the week.

[yknot]

1 hour ago, qwazse said:

What I am about to say is in no way an attempt to minimize the current contagion: all natural viral infections can find their way to the heart weeks after recovery. The 2018-2019 flu vaccines got a bad rep for their lack of efficacy, and accordingly my brother-in-law and his wife passed on them -- swearing by the vitamin supplements. They got hit bad the week before Christmas and by March, his heart went into a-fib requiring hospitalization. One of the most significant benefits of influenza vaccines -- even when they don't knock out every strain of virus that comes our way --- is the dramatic reduction in subsequent cardiac complications.

Most years, we don't think much of this by the time summer camp rolls around because most kids who weren't vaccinated will have had their infections 6 months earlier and are well past the window where, for some of them, the infection would rebound in myocardium. Basically, those heart attacks are more likely to happen in the school gym than on a weekend camp. Given that any given scout's coovid-19 infection would have been more recent, the cardiac risk window will fall in a very active outdoor season. This begs the question ... do we want our youth to be home alone, or around other scouts should one of them has a heart attack? On the other hand, how far away from major trauma centers do we want them to be?

With all due respect, flu season runs through April and even early May in some years so that theory doesn't make any sense to me. I'm not sure what you are trying to say..