Sleeping Bag and Pad

[swilliams]

Can't speak to a non-mummy bag, though I will say that as much as I hated the mummy bag at first, after many a camping trip it's no longer an issue.  

I have four sleeping pads, because I'm picky and still haven't found the one I love most of all.  First one is a Thermo-rest inflatable.  It's the warmest, but it's bulky and it isn't self-inflating, and takes a while to get it blown up.  It also isn't quite thick enough for me.  As a side-sleeper and female, it lets my hip bones hit the ground, so I end up tossing around all through the night.  This is the pad I take for cabin camping where we'll have cots or bunks and where I don't have to carry it very far.

Next I bought one of the egg-crate, accordion fold foam pads.  Very light, but still bulky.  It's not hard to strap it under the backpack, though.  It does an okay job of keeping the shoulder and hip from too much contact with the ground, but it's not great. I've given this one to my son, who is younger and made of rubber.  Bought a second on for son #2, and this same pad is the one nearly all our youth camp with.

Third, I tried an inflatable mattress pad from ALPS Mountaineering.  You inflate it by pressing on a foam pillow with a one-way air valve at the head of the pad.  This one is nice and thick, doesn't require you to actually blow into it, and is slightly smaller than a two-liter bottle, but there's no R-value because of the air between you and the sleeping surface.  My biggest complaint, though, and what keeps me from ever using this one, is that it's too narrow.  Every time I rolled over, I rolled off, and with the little bit of extra height/thickness, that wasn't pleasant.

Last up I bought a Klymet Static V, in XL.  At 5'7" I didn't need the extra length, but it's also wider than the others - 26 or 27" wide, rather than 23".  That extra means even if I roll over, I'm still on the pad.  I was worried about it at first because it isn't solid, but has openings in the mat - kind of an X or open V pattern - and I thought it might let parts of my body hit the ground, but it hasn't been a problem at all.  It packs down to slightly larger than a typical soda can and is super light.  As with the other air pad, there's no R-value to speak of, but this is my go-to for all summer camping and backpacking trips.  Also, because of the open pattern, it takes less air to blow it up.

[Pale Horse]

If you're not backpacking and just looking for something to get from the parking lot to the campsite, a collapsible wagon works really well.

[Eagledad]

20 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

As an interim step, and to begin the process, what about a backpack and a duffel bag?

The backpack can get your personal gear, food, small stove, tent, etc easily to and from the vehicle.  Then your large duffel can have chair, sleeping bag, pad, etc.  You have two bags and easy to transport and handle

As you migrate and advance to more backpacking you go from say a normal camp chair to a backpacking chair; move to a more compressed sleeping bag, more of a backpack sleeping pad.  Then suddenly everything fits in the backpack

I guess interim, but this was typical during my scouting years. I used a backpack and duffel bag on weekend troop camp outs and only the backpack on crew trips. I used the duffel bag for the pillow, non-mummy sleeping bag, camp chair, and a couple other items of comfort that I didn't take on crew trips. As you said, easy to transport and handle.

I only used two duffel bags (no backpack) for summer camp. I also took a tote box for the Scoutmaster management stuff. But still easy to transport and handle. 

My ground pad for back country crew trips was a 3/4 length closed cell pad that was just long enough to cover from head to thigh. I use my coat or clothing for my lower legs. It wasn't so much weight that I was saving, but pack space. Inflatable pads are OK, but my 3/4 closed cell was half the weight and space. Of course that was 20 years ago. There is probably some new fangled something or other that is even lighter now. Ahhh technology.

Barry

[mashmaster]

6 hours ago, mrkstvns said:

Hmmm.  Hammocks again.  

Just a reminder to folks that hammocks might be a good solution for some folks, some of the time, but do take the time to think about how you camp and where you camp, because they are definitely not a good solution for everyone.

As others have mentioned, the hammock can be less comfortable than sleeping on a cot, or even flat out on the ground. Do you like being bent into a taco shape at night?

We also need to be aware that hammocks damage the environment in many areas. There are places where their use is so short-lived or where the trees see little hammock use and the impact is so little as to be irrelevant. But there are also places (like "front country" state parks) where sites are heavily trafficked and a few good size trees constantly get picked as "perfect hammock trees". Because so many of those trees have been killed by constant stresses of large numbers of hammock campers, you see camps and parks that now have "no hammock" rules. Some state parks have recognized that there are people who enjoy hammocks, but rather than fight them with rules and restrictions, they will provide permanent steel hammock stands. If you find these in a park near you, use them rather than the trees. 

In scouting, we have an "Outdoor Code" and we promote use of "Leave No Trace" as an outdoor ethics program.  Outdoor ethics is about understanding the places we hike and camp. We observe the conditions and we do things in a way that doesn't damage the resource and that preserves it for the enjoyment of others.  LNT does not have any "rules". It has some guidelines that help us know what to look for and what to consider when we're outdoors so we can apply the "authority of the resource" to guide us.

That means that if we are in real backcountry in an area with healthy, hearty trees, then the hammock is a great choice for us.  If we are in an area with delicate ground cover, then likewise, the hammock might be an ideal solution to help us protect the resource.  However, if we're in an area where trees are smaller or fragile, or where conditions like drought and wild fire have left them struggling for survival....then any hammock usage at all will damage the environment far more than a tent on the ground.  There are also many areas where tents matting down the ground really aren't an "impact". For example, any camping on a beach, on the snow, or even on a layer of pine needles in a southern forest, will have zero to near-zero impact on "the resource".

Scouters who love their hammocks but still want to be responsible outdoorsmen can educate themselves about how the potential pitfalls of hammock use occur and can become aware of what natural factors affect the decision of whether or where to use a hammock.

Here's a good source of basic info that really helps understand just why hammocks can be a problem.
https://hammockinformation.com/do-hammocks-hurt-trees/

I'm not saying hammocks are always a problem....they're not. But sometimes they are.  Good outdoor ethics training helps us understand when, where, and how using a hammock is "good". 

 

 

My son is going to try to make a pioneering project for a hammock stand when car camping.   anyone done this before?  We were thinking of two tripods and a spreader between the tripods.

 

[jjlash]

1 hour ago, mashmaster said:

My son is going to try to make a pioneering project for a hammock stand when car camping.   anyone done this before?  We were thinking of two tripods and a spreader between the tripods.

 

Do some searches for a "turtledog hammock stand".  TurtleDog is a user name for the person on HammockForums.net who created the stand.  It is just what you are asking for - two tripods with a spreader between the tops.  People make them from many materials - mine is from 2x2 lumber and a chainlink fence top-rail.

The suggestion I would make is to make the tripods tall enough.  I made the legs of my tripods 6ft so it would fit in my vehicle.  When it was all set up with the tripods wide enough to be stable, they were so short that the hammock was less than a foot off the ground.  I like it a little higher so it is easier to get in/out of.

 

 

[mashmaster]

9 minutes ago, jjlash said:

Do some searches for a "turtledog hammock stand".  TurtleDog is a user name for the person on HammockForums.net who created the stand.  It is just what you are asking for - two tripods with a spreader between the tops.  People make them from many materials - mine is from 2x2 lumber and a chainlink fence top-rail.

The suggestion I would make is to make the tripods tall enough.  I made the legs of my tripods 6ft so it would fit in my vehicle.  When it was all set up with the tripods wide enough to be stable, they were so short that the hammock was less than a foot off the ground.  I like it a little higher so it is easier to get in/out of.

 

 

Thanks

[elitts]

8 hours ago, mrkstvns said:

Hmmm.  Hammocks again.  

Just a reminder to folks that hammocks might be a good solution for some folks, some of the time, but do take the time to think about how you camp and where you camp, because they are definitely not a good solution for everyone.

As others have mentioned, the hammock can be less comfortable than sleeping on a cot, or even flat out on the ground. Do you like being bent into a taco shape at night?

 

This is really an inaccurate and unfair characterization.  Any hammock out there designed with camping in mind is designed so that the sleeper lays nearly flat.  Obviously some folks might still be uncomfortable in a hammock, but it's not because they are bent into the shape of a taco or banana or anything else like that.  At least, they wouldn't lay like that if they actually read the instructions that tell you to get in the hammock and then shift your body about 30 degrees of the centerline of the hammock.

[69RoadRunner]

I just got this hammock to try out.  When I've tried hammocks, I didn't realize you're supposed to lay on a diagonal to be flat rather than bent.

Like so many things, getting the hammock leads to more purchases if you want to do it best.  A tarp and underquilt are ideal add-ons.  And as with anything, you can do things at different price points.

For the trees, you could use the Philmont bear line technique of using sticks between the straps and trunk.  If the same trees used by thousands of Philmonters every year, year after year, can handle that, I think trees can handle occasional hammock use.

 

[ianwilkins]

Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I always sleep "straight" on my hammock, I can't see how I'd do it at a 30 degree angle in my hammock, which looks much like 69RoadRunner's, but without the mozzie net. I'm a side sleeper though, and so I tuck my knees in one side, and feet on the other, and works for me, I'm not bananaing at all, in fact the curve of the hammock helps my head stay level. I'd always assumed that the "30 degree rule" was for those tropical island hammocks with a bar at each end holding it out, but as always happy to be shown the error of my ways.

Last time I hammocked, on Brownsea Island [gratuitous name drop], we had to put a piece of hessian between the straps of the hammock and the trees to protect them.

 

[69RoadRunner]

20 hours ago, ianwilkins said:

Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I always sleep "straight" on my hammock, I can't see how I'd do it at a 30 degree angle in my hammock, which looks much like 69RoadRunner's, but without the mozzie net. I'm a side sleeper though, and so I tuck my knees in one side, and feet on the other, and works for me, I'm not bananaing at all, in fact the curve of the hammock helps my head stay level. I'd always assumed that the "30 degree rule" was for those tropical island hammocks with a bar at each end holding it out, but as always happy to be shown the error of my ways.

Last time I hammocked, on Brownsea Island [gratuitous name drop], we had to put a piece of hessian between the straps of the hammock and the trees to protect them.

 

This is all new to me. The one I bought has a foot box on the diagonal. I think it requires the hammock to be asymmetrical.  I'm really only in the research phase as my hammock just arrived. I'm thinking of taking it to Northern Tier, but just for relaxing in camp, not really for sleeping.  I'm not sure what NT's rules are for sleeping in a hammock, but I've been told taking one is allowed.

If you look at the video for the Eldorado on the Warbonnet web site, it shows that you sleep on a diagonal to take advantage of their foot box and sleep closer to flat.  I'm also a side sleeper, which will likely be the greatest challenge to sleeping in a hammock.  Maybe I can adjust to back sleeping.  Maybe I'll be able to get comfortable side sleeping in it.  It might just be a thing to relax in and read a book.  The integrated bug net was a must-have in my shopping.

[elitts]

On 2/25/2020 at 8:16 AM, 69RoadRunner said:

For the trees, you could use the Philmont bear line technique of using sticks between the straps and trunk.  If the same trees used by thousands of Philmonters every year, year after year, can handle that, I think trees can handle occasional hammock use.

 

The biggest issues I've seen with hammocks and trees is when people use hammocks with strings or ropes instead of straps, or when they don't hang it right and the strap/rope is sliding down the tree during the night, stripping off bark.

The next biggest issue is with scouts tying up to trees that are too small.  The rule in our troop is that if you put the hammock up and when you get in, the trees move, the trees are too small.

Obviously, 5"-6" diameter is a better guideline objectively, but "if you make the tree move it's too small" is more functional with tweens and teens.

Quote

I'm also a side sleeper, which will likely be the greatest challenge to sleeping in a hammock.  Maybe I can adjust to back sleeping.  Maybe I'll be able to get comfortable side sleeping in it.  It might just be a thing to relax in and read a book.  The integrated bug net was a must-have in my shopping.

I'm a side sleeper too, but it doesn't seem to bother me terribly, there is just enough "not quite flat" to alleviate my snoring problem when sleeping on my back.  What I do find critical though is something under my knees to keep them bent a little.  U usually use either my backup blanket or bring a pillow case and stuff some clothes in it to shove under my knees.

I'm not gonna say I sleep better than I do at home, but at least I actually sleep and when I wake up I can move freely, whereas on the ground I spend the night tossing and turning, mostly awake, and when I finally get up I'm so stiff I can't function for the first 30 minutes.

Honestly, my single biggest issue is remembering not to drink more than small sips of liquids after like 6pm, cause when you are nestled into a hammock in 35F degree weather, getting up to pee really sucks since it takes a good 10 minutes to get everything rearranged when you get back.

Edited February 26, 2020 by elitts

[qwazse]

On February 26, 2020 at 11:33 AM, elitts said:

...

Honestly, my single biggest issue is remembering not to drink more than small sips of liquids after like 6pm, cause when you are nestled into a hammock in 35F degree weather, getting up to pee really sucks since it takes a good 10 minutes to get everything rearranged when you get back.

I cut-off two hours before bed time as well. Especially if it's below 20F!

[fred8033]

On 2/18/2020 at 4:20 PM, 5thGenTexan said:

This camp is located on a lake, so I am not sure if that factors in.

It does.  Check the vendor specs for the buoyancy coefficient of the sleeping bag.

Edited February 28, 2020 by fred8033

[TMSM]

I teach hammock camping at our council training event every year - here is a deck that I use

Hammock_101_.pdf

Edited February 28, 2020 by TMSM

[69RoadRunner]

2 hours ago, TMSM said:

I teach hammock camping at our council training event every year - here is a deck that I use

Hammock_101_.pdf

Thanks for sharing.  I'm debating if this hammock will be a relaxation only thing or if I want to get an underquilt and hammock tarp.