ThenNow Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 1 minute ago, TAHAWK said: Who is making the decison to offer the above-described offer, BSA, the insurance companies, or both? Has it been determined that BSA can make an offer on behalf of local councils? I'm not inside the case, but have an opinion based on all the reading and review I've done. I see no indication in the Plan that the insurance companies had any input. It's not their "side" of the deal and are aggressively embroiled in trying to obtain additional information and challenge claims. I can't image they're ready to give up anything just yet. There could be a baseline contribution being discussed, but this is what the BSA National is putting on the table. Likewise, I don't think so at all. There is an Ad Hoc Committee of LC's that ostensibly represents all LC's. I know for a fact that some LC's reject that notion. They don't believe the Ad Hoc Committee is their representative, and it does not and cannot speak for them. Thus, National has committed to making a request for a voluntary contribution from the LC's. That's about as squishy and non-committal as it gets. If National had the blessing to make the commitment, I would think they'd make it. All that said, what do I know... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThenNow Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 14 minutes ago, skeptic said: I find it interesting that there has not been even one comment yet, until me I guess, abut the inaccuracy of the statements about YP has not done anything. What am I missing. Most of these claims that they speak of are well before the YP was developed, and since it has improved, from all that I have read. I guess I glossed over those statements. Sorry. I have been through the YP materials available online. Unequivocally and without reservation, I found each module of such excellent quality I tried to find a generic version to pass on to others in custodial positions, whether individual or institutional. I know it would have helped in the past and cannot be anything but a great benefit now. It is not only educational and structural, but it gives practical markers to detect abuse of all kinds. I was very impressed. I hope that helps you feel reassured about what you are doing, coming from someone who suffered because of the historic lack of training and instruction about protecting kids from abuse and mistreatment. Before you react, I recognize much of that "lack" was both cultural and emblematic of the times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle1993 Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 20 minutes ago, skeptic said: Most of these claims that they speak of are well before the YP was developed, and since it has improved, from all that I have read. In part, as it takes people to get into their 30s+ before they may feel up to reporting incidents. That said, I do agree YPT & barriers to abuse have greatly helped. I believe my Troop is safe. I've seen multiple leaders within my Troop ensure YPT rules are being followed, even on zoom calls and emails. I see this at many other Troops as well. However, I believe there are likely units out there that may not follow YPT closely. My concern is that our current CO model is broken as there is no real oversight of those units/leaders. We do not have enough DEs or UCs to check into Troops with no CO oversight. I am concerned about those kids until there is more mandated oversight from either an active CO or district/council representatives. So yes, I think BSA could be doing more by admitting the CO model is broken (for many units) and needs reform. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David CO Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 6 hours ago, ThenNow said: Most anyone who has followed the case to any degree or reads this cold will see the offer as smug, insolent defiance sprinkled on top of contempt for sexual abuse survivors. Just sayin'... Join the club. This is how BSA executives treat most of us volunteer scouters. This attitude is not reserved solely for those who have been sexually abused. Smug, insolent defiance sprinkled on top of contempt. Well said. Very well said. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MYCVAStory Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 For those who would like to hear the Tort Claimants Committee's response, directly, to the BSA plan you may watch the TCC's March Town Hall on the 11th at 8PM EST. The link will be posted at the TCC's website www.tccbsa.com soon. The notice of the meeting as filed earlier today is attached. BSA - 2304 - Notice of March Virtual Town Hall Meeting.pdf 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeptic Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 It is good that someone here sees the verity in my concern regarding suggestions by legal people that "nothing" has really been done and the intimation that it is getting worse. Now, if the courts might actually review the totality of the "facts", in this case YP and stats in the past two decades. I just hope someone in the legal team for National is paying attention. Better, maybe a few of the silent supporters that know this is slanted, actually might step in to balance the scale a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThenNow Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 (edited) 46 minutes ago, skeptic said: And, even before the YP was developed, percentage wise, it seems Scouting was not the top of the list for known predators; and to day it is at or near the bottom. And no amount of money is going to "fix" bad judgment or erase bad players from the past somehow. None of what I can say makes it less of a burden for those working to maintain all that is good about Scouting. I hope it is clear from all I have written that through it all I value and acknowledge what Scouting did for me. It was very muddled and tarnished, but I have my awards and badges and sashes and so on. Many people don't understand me being "of two minds." They don't understand because they didn't live either or both side of my life. One family may have three abusers over a generation and the percentage of predators very high, per capita. With Scouts, it doesn't matter if there were millions of Scouts or 100,000 Scouts. 85,000 is the takeaway. Not many of us "do math" (or arithmetic) anymore. In the era of sound bites and over-simplifications, hashtags and catch phrases carry the day. Said, but true. Whether Scouting was or is at the top or bottom of such a list is pretty much irrelevant now. You have to face it and go on, as you honorably and earnestly propose. It is become a convenient symbol for institutional sexual abuse and some will always see it as such. That looks horrible to read on "paper," sounds equally terrible and is unfortunate. BUT, abuse victims didn't create that reality and the BSA did, in fact, facilitate it. No two ways about it. What the public and attorneys have made of it would not be possible if it had not happened. Do I know that 85,000 claims are 100% legit? No, I don't. Do I believe they are? Not so much. I do know for certain one is very much true and accurate, and I know what wreckage was caused. Agreed. Money can't erase the predation or history. In this context, it might just do some good. Edited March 2, 2021 by ThenNow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yknot Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 16 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said: ... However, I believe there are likely units out there that may not follow YPT closely. My concern is that our current CO model is broken as there is no real oversight of those units/leaders. We do not have enough DEs or UCs to check into Troops with no CO oversight. I am concerned about those kids until there is more mandated oversight from either an active CO or district/council representatives. So yes, I think BSA could be doing more by admitting the CO model is broken (for many units) and needs reform. This is the crux of the problem with YPT. There is no real, effective oversight of it. There are still some very gray areas in YPT and local commitments and viewpoints about what it is varies. As was pointed out, the reorganization plan doesn't address any of those aspects and I fear never will because BSA clearly wants this in its rear view mirror. I think it believes it's fixed the problem but it hasn't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CynicalScouter Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 1 hour ago, TAHAWK said: Has it been determined that BSA can make an offer on behalf of local councils? BSA National is simply saying that they will attempt to get Councils to "voluntarily" pay in. Quote The Debtors are committed to ensuring that the aggregate value of the Local Council Settlement Contribution is not less than $300,000,000, exclusive of insurance rights proposed to be contributed to the Settlement Trust. The Debtors intend to request the voluntary commitments of Local Councils to make their respective contributions, which contributions shall be set forth in commitment agreements executed by each Local Council. By no later than June 1, 2021, the Debtors shall file a report with the Bankruptcy Court concerning the status of the Debtors’ efforts to obtain contribution commitments from the Local Councils. Such status report shall contain information concerning the form of contributions by the Local Councils (i.e., cash, real property, or other assets) and the timing of such contributions. In addition, the status report will set forth any required amendments the Debtors may propose to the Plan to facilitate the Local Council Settlement Contribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitiveScouter Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 39 minutes ago, David CO said: Join the club. This is how BSA executives treat most of us volunteer scouters. This attitude is not reserved solely for those who have been sexually abused. Smug, insolent defiance sprinkled on top of contempt. Well said. Very well said. Unfortunately, this is my experience as well... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CynicalScouter Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 (edited) 28 minutes ago, skeptic said: Now, if the courts might actually review the totality of the "facts", in this case YP and stats in the past two decades. The fact that YP has been good/better lately doesn't negate the claims of the victims from the past. If those claims are valid, they are getting paid out. Edited March 2, 2021 by CynicalScouter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CynicalScouter Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 1) Does anyone here really, really, think that 66% of the creditor class/subclass (sexual abuse victims) is going to really sign off on this? Quote (c) A class of claims has accepted a plan if such plan has been accepted by creditors, other than any entity designated under subsection (e) of this section, that hold at least two-thirds in amount and more than one-half in number of the allowed claims of such class held by creditors, other than any entity designated under subsection (e) of this section, that have accepted or rejected such plan. (d) A class of interests has accepted a plan if such plan has been accepted by holders of such interests, other than any entity designated under subsection (e) of this section, that hold at least two-thirds in amount of the allowed interests of such class held by holders of such interests, other than any entity designated under subsection (e) of this section, that have accepted or rejected such plan. 2) Does anyone here really, really think that if they cannot get 66% that the judge will issue a "cramdown" and order the class to accept it anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThenNow Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 7 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said: The fact that YP has been good/better lately doesn't negate the claims of the victims from the past. If those claims are valid, they are getting paid out. The case can only countenance claims before it. Absolutely no other part of the story is of any concern or relevance, other than to public perception. That's the entire function of the reorganization. What are the valid debts, what are the assets and how can we clear the deck to keep this thing afloat (or not). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThenNow Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 8 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said: Does anyone here really, really think that if they cannot get 66% that the judge will issue a "cramdown" and order the class to accept it anyway? They cannot get 66% on this turd no matter how much they polish it. Doubtful with a side of supremely unlikely. This tussle is just in Round One, anyway. https://www.wsbankruptcylaw.com/chapter-11-business-bankruptcy/cram-down-provision/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle1993 Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 6 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said: 1) Does anyone here really, really, think that 66% of the creditor class/subclass (sexual abuse victims) is going to really sign off on this? 2) Does anyone here really, really think that if they cannot get 66% that the judge will issue a "cramdown" and order the class to accept it anyway? No & no. FYI ... USA Gymnastics offered $215M for 500 sex abuse and the survivors said not enough. The US Bankruptcy Judge agreed and said USOPC needed to be "actively participating, particularly with their pocketbook". That judge went on ... "It isn't news to anybody on this phone call, nor is it news to me, that the U.S. Olympic Committee needs to be an active participant, and I mean beyond just throwing in their insurance coverage in this" National BSA is offering $220M for 85,000 victims. Really, does anyone in their right mind think any judge will say yep, sounds good to me. I expect the BSA will be hammered by the court. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts