Chapter 11 announced

[InquisitiveScouter]

Initial membership numbers and recharter are not looking good here.  My spies tell me our council has about a 50% loss from last year...ouch  But, first reports are always wrong...

Wonder if the court will request or look at those kinds of stats to inform the decision??

[Cburkhardt]

The future will largely be defined by the result of the private negotiations going on right now.  Because it may be extraordinarily difficult to come to an agreement acceptable to all major parties, a principal determinant of BSA's future may be  whether there can be a financial arrangement the Judge will deem acceptable to order as a cramdown.  She is uniquely empowered to balance all of the factors commenters have posted to this string.  She really has in her hands the discretion to make the call here.  That is why bankruptcy judges are often thought of as one of the most powerful commercial figures in the business and industrial world. 

One factor she will consider in approving a settlement or ordering a cramdown is whether the BSA has the ability to continue forward after the reorganization.  Claimant attorneys who are seeking a liquidation and destruction of the BSA know this and are taking public relations steps to make the post-bankruptcy operations appear hopeless.  They are, very directly, seeking to undermine the confidence of our professional and volunteer core through some of the outlandish things they have been saying.

[InquisitiveScouter]

6 minutes ago, Cburkhardt said:

Claimant attorneys who are seeking a liquidation and destruction of the BSA know this and are taking public relations steps to make the post-bankruptcy operations appear hopeless.  They are, very directly, seeking to undermine the confidence of our professional and volunteer core through some of the outlandish things they have been saying.

???

[CynicalScouter]

21 minutes ago, Cburkhardt said:

Claimant attorneys who are seeking a liquidation and destruction of the BSA know this and are taking public relations steps to make the post-bankruptcy operations appear hopeless

Yep. Kosnoff and his folks want BSA dead and if they can't get the court to order it (liquidation) they'll get the court to gut shoot the organization and let it bleed out over the course of the next 2-3 years at which point BSA is right back in bankruptcy.

Edited January 26, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[Cburkhardt]

Inquisitive:  The point is that eroding the confidence of BSA professionals and volunteers regarding the post-bankruptcy future of the BSA by continuing to pound negative PR well after the claims filing deadline has rationality for the claimant attorneys -- at least the ones that favor liquidation.  If the core of the BSA were to lose faith in its long-term future, the Judge could take that into account in determining whether to approve a reorganization or order a liquidation.

[InquisitiveScouter]

40 minutes ago, Cburkhardt said:

If the core of the BSA were to lose faith in its long-term future

Well, given events of late, it's not just the BSA's long-term future I am beginning to lose faith in...

[Cburkhardt]

Too many Americans have been staking out absolute positions and daring others to cross a rhetorical line.  Sometimes the rhetoric on even this site has trended in a similar direction, with folks just not showing respect for reasoned but differing views.  The divisions that evolve reduce our confidence in our nation's Constitution, and similarly in the fundamental approaches in Scouting.  The WWII combat veterans who were the Scoutmasters and Skippers of my youth were not that way.  They fought hard in a war to ease my way through life, and Boy Scouts and Sea Scouts helped make me what I hope is a respectful and open-minded individual.  They knew they did not have a monopoly on all of the good ideas, and inspired me to make whatever meager contributions to society I have attempted.  I like Scouting, I believe in the Boy Scouts of America, and I believe in the Constitution and the future of our country.  I hope everyone on this site does also.  

[InquisitiveScouter]

I believe in the ideals.  It's the people who work so hard at tearing them down, who seem to be gaining in influence, that erode faith...

I, for one, am standing in the gap as best I can.

[MattR]

4 hours ago, Cburkhardt said:

The point is that eroding the confidence of BSA professionals and volunteers regarding the post-bankruptcy future of the BSA by continuing to pound negative PR well after the claims filing deadline has rationality for the claimant attorneys -- at least the ones that favor liquidation.  If the core of the BSA were to lose faith in its long-term future,

Or maybe this is like buying a car and they're just dickering on a price. Remember, win all you can! Anyway, I wouldn't take it personally. It just is.

[InquisitiveScouter]

Refreshing, although dated...

https://thisibelieve.org/essay/16630/

[PACAN]

Maybe we can close this thread and have cburkhardt and cynical and inquisitive summarize the status of the bankruptcy under a new thread like "bankruptcy 2021 status ". Or something like that.

[Mrjeff]

Every time I suggest moving on and focusing on what we can do to save what we have I'm either ignored or advised that I can always start another group.  Clearly the point of my comments have been misunderstood.  I think that even if the BSA is completly destroyed no one will be able to stop the true spirit of Scouting.  We may have to return to the days where a couple of dads or moms load up their cars or vans and go camp out or take a hike.  It just depends on those Scouters who are willing to pick up whatever shreds are left, and just keep going. This whole pile of $#!+ doesn't matter one bit to the kids as long as they are having positive fun.

[vol_scouter]

Mrjeff,

I think that your sentiments are just a little ahead of the situation.  From what I see from comments from posters who appear to be attorneys and private conversations, the outcome from Chapter 11 seems to be that the national council survives though is smaller and certainly less wealthy.  The less likely outcome would seem to be changing to a Chapter 7 and dissolving the BSA.  Speculation is that some organization that will own the intellectual property, trademarks, etc will survive in either situation.  There is considerable difference between a very small group owning the IP, etc and a smaller but still viable BSA.  A very small group owning just the IP will put the future entirely in the hands of local councils and volunteers whereas a smaller BSA will still be able to serve as a means to retain an identity and maintain standards so that a youth may move and resume Scouting with the same requirements, ranks, etc. 

If the BSA survives, will it have high adventure bases?  Will it have a supply division?  One can ask many such questions and the answers will dictate the rebuilding that we will require. 

One way or the other, Scouting's future in the USA will depend on volunteers everywhere o continue to work with America's youth, execute the program, and maintain the standards.  Hopefully, it will be with a national structure but one way or the other, we all will rebuild damaged local councils and the national council.  Scouting will survive only with all of us working together. 

When it is clear the extent that we will need to rebuild Scouting in America, then the discussion will turn how to keep the parents and volunteers going into the wilds to build the next generations of citizens. 

Your discussion is much needed but just a little premature.  When we get enough information, I will join you in discussing the coming needs.

[yknot]

1 hour ago, Mrjeff said:

Every time I suggest moving on and focusing on what we can do to save what we have I'm either ignored or advised that I can always start another group.  Clearly the point of my comments have been misunderstood.  I think that even if the BSA is completly destroyed no one will be able to stop the true spirit of Scouting.  We may have to return to the days where a couple of dads or moms load up their cars or vans and go camp out or take a hike.  It just depends on those Scouters who are willing to pick up whatever shreds are left, and just keep going. This whole pile of $#!+ doesn't matter one bit to the kids as long as they are having positive fun.

I don't think you are being ignored, I just think the reality is that scouting is done and that it will be almost impossible to continue it as a grass roots activity. A group of parents will still need public goodwill and liability insurance. 

[CynicalScouter]

1 hour ago, Mrjeff said:

Every time I suggest moving on and focusing on what we can do to save what we have I'm either ignored or advised that I can always start another group.

We can't move on while the litigation is still ongoing. Until we know what is left of BSA, there's no way to gauge what should be done.

Moreover, if the idea is to focus on alternatives, this is probably not the thread for it to be discussed on/in.