Cburkhardt Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 The potential method and formula for funding a BSA Victims Trust Fund is the subject of highly confidential discussions at this point, and anyone having that information should maintain the confidentiality of it. Anything I share here is not inside information, but just general bankruptcy information. The normal circumstance is to fund a trust of this particular nature within a reasonable time after a reorganization plan is ordered by the bankruptcy court. That's because we don't have near-guaranteed future consumer spending to rely on (like future proceeds from the purchasers of tobacco). The bankruptcy trustees, their experts and involved lawyers figure out in advance the grand total of what the trust fund should have in order to make reasonable payments to known and (sometimes) future victims. Consultants that assist this work estimate key factors, including the potential presence of fraudulent claims. Then they search for ways to fund the trust from things like insurance, bankrupt party assets and contributions from non-bankrupt parties that desire to obtain a liability discharge. The effort culminates in a negotiation where the various parties commit to funding obligations and how they will satisfy those commitments. The various funding parties use different techniques to marshal and provide their contributions. For instance, allowances would be made for time needed to liquidate an asset, if that were to be a source of contribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CynicalScouter Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 1 minute ago, InquisitiveScouter said: Except that the execs will still be getting their six or seven figure salaries and retirement compensations, no matter which way it goes. 1) As for retirement, that is what they were legally promised. As noted, the law protects retirement and pension programs for EVERYONE. Including them. 2) As for the salaries, do you expect people at National to work for free? What do you think the salary should be? The rule of thumb is that charity CEOs are paid 1-10% of the organization's expenses. https://d20umu42aunjpx.cloudfront.net/2016+CEO+Comp+Study/2016+CEO+Compensation+Study.pdf The latest data (2019-2020) indicates that remains the case. "In our study, the most significant factor affecting CEO pay was the amount of money raised and spent every year. On average, a CEO at a smaller nonprofit ($500K – $1M in annual expenses) makes $85,593 each year, while the average for a CEO at large nonprofits (over $50 million in annual expenses per year) gets paid $332,089" https://analytics.excellenceingiving.com/2019-2020-nonprofit-ceo-compensation-study/ BSA 2019 expenses were $430.5 million. CEO made 909,437 = 0.2% Completely consistent with other youth organizations. American Heritage Girls https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/display_990/311443814/09_2020_prefixes_27-32%2F311443814_201905_990_2020091817312046 Expenses of $3.3 million, CEO makes 138,441 = 4% Baden-Powell Service Association (United States) https://www.sefanys.org/sites/sefanys.org/files/webform/2019recertification990/Form 990 (2017).pdf Expenses of $1.4 million, CEO makes 132,717 = 9.4% National FFA Organization (formerly Future Farmers) https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/display_990/540524844/09_2019_prefixes_48-54%2F540524844_201812_990_2019091316649330 Expenses of $30 million, CEO makes 172,241 = 0.58% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CynicalScouter Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 1 minute ago, Cburkhardt said: The normal circumstance is to fund a trust of this particular nature within a reasonable time after a reorganization plan is ordered by the bankruptcy cour Yes, and this is the key. Is "reasonable" going to be "BSA doesn't get its discharge order until the fund is fully paid"? Or 1-5 years? Or 25 years (Tobacco Master Settlement)? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cburkhardt Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 Looks like the conversation is going in another direction, so I'll end my thoughts by simply sharing that I highly doubt a Victims Trust Fund would be funded by future national registration fees. This would be too unreliable a funding source in a bankruptcy negotiation. Registration fees might continue to increase for other reasons, but not to fund a trust. I remain supremely confident that the BSA will get through this for several reasons. We still have a great purpose and many great supporters. And, the nature of the bankruptcy reorganization will assist us do justice by providing reasonable recompense for the past and continue forward. Economic incentives are there in the bankruptcy process to encourage a settlement here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cburkhardt Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 Quick answer to CynicalScouter: I think a reasonable funding window could be 1-2 years. That is plenty of time to marshal assets and submit a trust contribution. Just my speculation though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitiveScouter Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 7 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said: 1) As for retirement, that is what they were legally promised. As noted, the law protects retirement and pension programs for EVERYONE. Including them. 2) As for the salaries, do you expect people at National to work for free? What do you think the salary should be? The rule of thumb is that charity CEOs are paid 1-10% of the organization's expenses. https://d20umu42aunjpx.cloudfront.net/2016+CEO+Comp+Study/2016+CEO+Compensation+Study.pdf The latest data (2019-2020) indicates that remains the case. "In our study, the most significant factor affecting CEO pay was the amount of money raised and spent every year. On average, a CEO at a smaller nonprofit ($500K – $1M in annual expenses) makes $85,593 each year, while the average for a CEO at large nonprofits (over $50 million in annual expenses per year) gets paid $332,089" https://analytics.excellenceingiving.com/2019-2020-nonprofit-ceo-compensation-study/ BSA 2019 expenses were $430.5 million. CEO made 909,437 = 0.2% Completely consistent with other youth organizations. American Heritage Girls https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/display_990/311443814/09_2020_prefixes_27-32%2F311443814_201905_990_2020091817312046 Expenses of $3.3 million, CEO makes 138,441 = 4% Baden-Powell Service Association (United States) https://www.sefanys.org/sites/sefanys.org/files/webform/2019recertification990/Form 990 (2017).pdf Expenses of $1.4 million, CEO makes 132,717 = 9.4% National FFA Organization (formerly Future Farmers) https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/display_990/540524844/09_2019_prefixes_48-54%2F540524844_201812_990_2019091316649330 Expenses of $30 million, CEO makes 172,241 = 0.58% I acknowledge that "This is the Way", but I believe, at it's heart, this model is flawed. And I know I ain't going to be the one to change it. This data, when presented to Mom and Pop on main street, doesn't fly. Especially in the light of the "value-added" discussions we have had. And I do not buy the 'we have to pay these kinds of salaries to attract the talent" argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CynicalScouter Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said: I acknowledge that "This is the Way", but I believe, at it's heart, this model is flawed. So, you believe that people who work for charities / not-for-profits should work for free? Again, what is the acceptable salary? Name the number. BSA 2019 expenses were $430.5 million. CEO made 909,437 = 0.2% Edited January 18, 2021 by CynicalScouter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yknot Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said: So, you believe that people who work for charities not-for-profits should work for free? Again, what is the acceptable salary? Name the number. BSA 2019 expenses were $430.5 million. CEO made 909,437 = 0.2% I don't know what an acceptable salary would be but I do know that what I would expect of a fairly paid executive corps would be an organization that is not in bankruptcy after a history of missteps. One could argue that organizational mismanagement abetted the child abuse scandal as well as other controversies that have damaged scouting. Let's look at this differently: if scouting were thriving, or at least better positioned to manage this crisis, I don't think anyone would be taking note of executive salaries. Edited January 18, 2021 by yknot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitiveScouter Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 (edited) 16 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said: So, you believe that people who work for charities / not-for-profits should work for free? Again, what is the acceptable salary? Name the number. BSA 2019 expenses were $430.5 million. CEO made 909,437 = 0.2% Only a Sith deals in absolutes. Do you really think I am advocating that people work for free? At the council level, I could see a structure of using the median income of the population you serve as a baseline. Add a percentage increase year by year based on performance. Many ways to skin that cat. But no council (that I know of) gets to select its own talent. BSA selects the "talent pool" for them. And they must select one of those. So, ultimately its about surviving the long con in the network of who-you-know to land a slot at the feeding trough. Edited January 18, 2021 by InquisitiveScouter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CynicalScouter Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 3 minutes ago, yknot said: I don't know what an acceptable salary would be but I do know that what I would expect of a fairly paid executive corps would be an organization that is not in bankruptcy after a history of missteps. Most if not ALL of the current executives were not present when the abuse took place. Mosby was put in position less than 3 months before the bankruptcy was filed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yknot Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 Just now, CynicalScouter said: Most if not ALL of the current executives were not present when the abuse took place. Mosby was put in position less than 3 months before the bankruptcy was filed. Mosby. Exactly. Where is our Captain? What leader does not communicate with his/her troops? Like... at all? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CynicalScouter Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 4 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said: At the council level, I could see a structure of using the median income of the population you serve as a baseline. Add a percentage increase year by year based on performance. Many ways to skin that cat. What does the median income of the area have to do with the skill set needed to be a S.E.? The median person is NOT the head of a million dollar (or multi-million dollar) organization. It also does nothing at the national level for a national organization. I asked you a very specific question. Quote BSA 2019 expenses were $430.5 million. CEO made 909,437 = 0.2% What should that number have been? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CynicalScouter Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 4 minutes ago, yknot said: Mosby. Exactly. Where is our Captain? What leader does not communicate with his/her troops? Like... at all? I am going to guess here that given the nature of the ongoing litigation with both the bankruptcy and GSUSA he has been advise by his attorneys to not say a single word about either. That said, there was a pretty full and complete briefing on the status of the bankruptcy (as of that point) at the NAM last year. Link is here https://vimeo.com/421340141 Conversation starts at 1:05:00 of so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitiveScouter Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said: What should that number have been? Don't know. But if you pay me 5 million dollars, I'll be glad to come up with a pay structure that provides adequate compensation for the tasks, while attracting the needed skill sets to meet those tasks. I would trust our local grocery store manager to better manage our council than it currently is. Most separated or retired military officers at or above the rank of O-4, and most separated or retired enlisted at or above E-6 would be great candidates as well. Give them double what they were making on active duty, and you'd have a good start. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yknot Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 1 minute ago, CynicalScouter said: I am going to guess here that given the nature of the ongoing litigation with both the bankruptcy and GSUSA he has been advise by his attorneys to not say a single word about either. That said, there was a pretty full and complete briefing on the status of the bankruptcy (as of that point) at the NAM last year. Link is here https://vimeo.com/421340141 Conversation starts at 1:05:00 of so. The titular heads of virtually every other organization this year issued year end statements of thanks and support to their employees/membership/customers/etc. If Mosby was a good leader worthy of a six figure salary, he would have issued a statement of thanks to the rank and file for their efforts to keep the ship afloat during Covid and navigate the challenges of this year. Short, sweet, motivating. However, nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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