CynicalScouter Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, Eagle1993 said: 19 pages of emails to inform all of the groups of claimants … wow, this has grown. 134 sets of attorneys listed as "Counsel to" Edited December 7, 2020 by CynicalScouter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThenNow Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 1 hour ago, CynicalScouter said: 134 sets of attorneys listed as "Counsel to" Yup. I watch the payment requests appear on the docket like clockwork. I know both can be flawed, ill-motivated and driven by sweeping 'cattle drive' campaigns for any and all possible claims, valid or not, but this highlights some of the procedural advantages of class actions over mass tort bankruptcies. For example: one class representative for the entire class, putative or certified; a certification process within which a class of "similarly situated" proposed plaintiffs must be at least facially vetted and blessed by the court; one set of attorneys bringing the case; and one team negotiating the settlement on behalf of the class. Contrary to popular belief, the plaintiffs don't always receive the same award. Also, by the by, "similarly situation" doesn't equate to of equal value. It's about how the claim arose and on what basis they were damaged or disadvantaged by the actions/inactions of the defendant(s). Just some more useless information one may or may not care to know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David CO Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 52 minutes ago, ThenNow said: Just some more useless information one may or may not care to know. We're scouters. We thrive on useless information. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThenNow Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 10 minutes ago, David CO said: We're scouters. We thrive on useless information. Ha! I needed that! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSScout Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 4 hours ago, David CO said: We're scouters. We thrive on useless information. Whoah... there is no such thing as "useless" information. One cannot tell when any piece of knowledge might be of use. Crossword puzzles, impressing girl friends, finding folks of common derivation at a party, preventing wife from hurting herself by repairing "something" . . . My freshman class in dynamics did not come useful until I started investigating traffic accidents 35 years later. The laws of physics cannot be denied, it turns out. But yes, indeed , we do thrive on such esoteria. Such is very useful. If the shape of an axe head is the "Michigan" pattern, or the shape of tent is a "Baker", it has meaning to them for whom it is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberSchiff Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 On 10/27/2020 at 10:01 PM, CynicalScouter said: Whose is next? The Lutherans? The Catholics? Claim No Claim Date Filed Creditor C438 10/21/2020 Alamo Heights United Methodist Church C442 10/21/2020 First United Methodist Church of Del Rio C439 10/21/2020 Ingleside United Methodist Church C440 10/21/2020 Oxford United Methodist Church of San Antonio Texas C441 10/21/2020 St Luke United Methodist Church Austin C437 10/21/2020 St Mark United Methodist Church C451 10/22/2020 Bartlett United Methodist Church, Inc. C457 10/22/2020 Belle Meade United Methodist Church C466 10/22/2020 Bethany United Methodist Church of Austin C455 10/22/2020 Bethel United Methodist Church Chewsville C444 10/22/2020 First United Methodist Church C471 10/22/2020 First United Methodist Church C469 10/22/2020 First United Methodist Church - Laredo C449 10/22/2020 First United Methodist Church Brownsville C458 10/22/2020 First United Methodist Church Mission, Texas Inc. C464 10/22/2020 First United Methodist Church Murfreesboro C461 10/22/2020 Gary Memorial United Methodist Church C462 10/22/2020 Glen Mar UMC C474 10/22/2020 Grace United Methodist Church Houghton MI C465 10/22/2020 Grandville United Methodist Church C472 10/22/2020 Grosse Pointe United Methodist Church C446 10/22/2020 Highland United Methodist Church C454 10/22/2020 Kerrville First United Methodist Church C459 10/22/2020 Millers United Methodist Church C452 10/22/2020 Mt Carmel United Methodist Church C473 10/22/2020 Mt. Pleasant First United Methodist Church C447 10/22/2020 Saint John's United Methodist Church C445 10/22/2020 Schertz United Methodist Church C450 10/22/2020 St. Andrew's United Methodist Church C467 10/22/2020 The Summit Church C453 10/22/2020 United Methodist Church of Brady C468 10/22/2020 Walled Lake UMC C460 10/22/2020 Wesley Grove United Methodist Church C549 10/23/2020 Alamo United Methodist Church C546 10/23/2020 Arapaho United Methodist Church C520 10/23/2020 Ardsley United Methodist Church C25 10/23/2020 Bethany United Methodist Church (187831) C531 10/23/2020 Bethany United Methodist Church (187831) C505 10/23/2020 Blanchard-Pineriver United Methodist Church C482 10/23/2020 Blanche UMC C548 10/23/2020 Bloomfield United Methodist Church C512 10/23/2020 Clinton Avenue United Methodist Church C541 10/23/2020 Derby United Methodist Church C542 10/23/2020 Dixboro United Methodist Church C527 10/23/2020 Emmanuel United Methodist Church C501 10/23/2020 Epworth United Methodist Church Gaithersburg C498 10/23/2020 First Methodist Church Colleyville Texas C540 10/23/2020 First United Methodist Church of Carrollton C507 10/23/2020 First United Methodist Church of Shelton C489 10/23/2020 First United Methodist Church, Victoria C487 10/23/2020 Flat Rock First United Methodist Church C518 10/23/2020 Gashland United Methodist Churdch C547 10/23/2020 Glen Burnie United Methodist Church C475 10/23/2020 Goodrich United Methodist Church C481 10/23/2020 Grace United Methodist Church C496 10/23/2020 Grace United Methodist Church C508 10/23/2020 Grace United Methodist Church C552 10/23/2020 Grace United Methodist Church C24 10/23/2020 Holiday Park United Methodist Church (98585) C529 10/23/2020 Holiday Park United Methodist Church (98585) C513 10/23/2020 Homestead Park United Methodist Church C20 10/23/2020 Homestead Park United Methodist Church (103240) C517 10/23/2020 Hudson First United Methodist Church C530 10/23/2020 Katonah United Methodist Church C499 10/23/2020 Kensington United Methodist Church C476 10/23/2020 Lone Oak United Methodist Church C478 10/23/2020 Marysville United Methodist Church C484 10/23/2020 Michelson Memorial United Methodist Church C510 10/23/2020 New Life United Methodist Church C509 10/23/2020 New Milford United Methodist Churcg C495 10/23/2020 New World UMC Arlington Texas C477 10/23/2020 New York Annual Conference of the C500 10/23/2020 Newington United Methodist Church C514 10/23/2020 Nolensville First United Methodist Church C488 10/23/2020 Oscoda United Methodist Church C539 10/23/2020 Pearl Street United Methodist Church C480 10/23/2020 Petoskey United Methodist Church C551 10/23/2020 Pleasant Street United Methodist Church C492 10/23/2020 Port Huron First United Methodist Church C493 10/23/2020 Poughkeepsie United Methodist Church C535 10/23/2020 Redeemer United Methodist Church C511 10/23/2020 Redford Aldersgate UMC C28 10/23/2020 Ringgold United Methodist Church (85845) C536 10/23/2020 Ringgold United Methodist Church (85845) C21 10/23/2020 Roxbury St Paul United Methodist Church (187944) C522 10/23/2020 Roxbury St Paul United Methodist Church (187944) C503 10/23/2020 Saint James UMC of Kingston C490 10/23/2020 Saint Pauls United Methodist Church C23 10/23/2020 Salem United Methodist Church (96644) C528 10/23/2020 Salem United Methodist Church (96644) C526 10/23/2020 Severna Park United Methodist Church C502 10/23/2020 Shepherd United Methodist Church C485 10/23/2020 Simpson United Methodist Church C22 10/23/2020 South Greensburg United Methodist Church (98643) C525 10/23/2020 South Greensburg United Methodist Church (98643) C491 10/23/2020 St. John's United Methodist Church C506 10/23/2020 St. Paul United Methodist Church C27 10/23/2020 Summit Chapel United Methodist Church (97502) C534 10/23/2020 Summit Chapel United Methodist Church (97502) C524 10/23/2020 The First United Methodist Church of Lowell C543 10/23/2020 The United Methodist Church of Peekskill C516 10/23/2020 Trinity Boscobel United Methodist Church C504 10/23/2020 Trinity United Methodist Church C29 10/23/2020 Trinity United Methodist Church (188061) C537 10/23/2020 Trinity United Methodist Church (188061) C538 10/23/2020 Trinity United Methodist Church (188061) C26 10/23/2020 Unionville United Methodist Church (96861) C532 10/23/2020 Unionville United Methodist Church (96861) C523 10/23/2020 United Churches of Durham C533 10/23/2020 United Methodist Church at Shrub Oak C519 10/23/2020 United Methodist Church of Babylon C515 10/23/2020 United Methodist Church of Bay Shore C544 10/23/2020 United Methodist Church of Sea Cliff C497 10/23/2020 United Methodist Church of Watertown C494 10/23/2020 West Hartford United Methodist Church C486 10/23/2020 Westwood United Methodist Church C550 10/23/2020 Wethersfield United Methodist Church C555 10/24/2020 First United Methodist Church, Ansonia, CT C554 10/24/2020 Fishkill United Methodist Church C556 10/24/2020 Fishkill United Methodist Church C559 10/24/2020 Grace United Methodist Church C553 10/24/2020 Iglesia Evangelica Metodista Unida de Coop City C560 10/24/2020 Montgomery United Methodist Church C561 10/24/2020 Mt Zion United Methodist Church - Highland, Md C557 10/24/2020 Naugatuck United Methodist Church C558 10/24/2020 Trinity United Methodist Parish C39 10/26/2020 Armagh United Methodist Church (97227) C40 10/26/2020 Baden United Methodist Church (95263) C46 10/26/2020 Bakerstown United Methodist Church (95285) C36 10/26/2020 Calvary United Methodist Church (100543) C52 10/26/2020 Christ United Methodist Church (89227) C47 10/26/2020 Fells United Methodist Church (99660) C48 10/26/2020 First United Methodist Church (103546) C53 10/26/2020 First United Methodist Church (103980) C51 10/26/2020 First United Methodist Church (180908) C44 10/26/2020 First United Methodist Church (85787) C34 10/26/2020 First United Methodist Church (89901) C30 10/26/2020 Glenwood United Methodist Church (60674) C42 10/26/2020 Greenstone United Methodist Church (101148) C49 10/26/2020 Haven Heights United Methodist Church (Pitt) C41 10/26/2020 Lakeside United Methodist Church (85388) C43 10/26/2020 Lakewood United Methodist Church (89307) C54 10/26/2020 Latrobe United Methodist Church (98120) C33 10/26/2020 Monroeville United Methodist Church (98324) C38 10/26/2020 Mount Lebanon United Methodist Church (101308) C45 10/26/2020 Nixon United Methodist Church (95503) C50 10/26/2020 Otterbein United Methodist Church (189475) C31 10/26/2020 Stone United Methodist Church (89626) C35 10/26/2020 Stone United Methodist Church (89626) C37 10/26/2020 Trinity United Methodist Church (100554) C32 10/26/2020 W. PA Annual Conference of the C55 10/26/2020 West View United Methodist Church (102245) 2. In October 2020, several Conferences of the United Methodist Church and many United Methodist Churches retained Bradley Arant Boult Cummings LLP “Bradley” to represent their interests in these Chapter 11 Cases.The addresses and identities of the Conferences of the United Methodist Church that retained Bradley are set forth in Exhibit A. The addresses and identities of the United Methodist Churches that retained by Bradley are attached as Exhibit B. 3. Each of the United Methodist Churches set forth in Exhibit B is a Chartered Organization and holds a Claim2 against debtor Boy Scouts of America (“BSA”) arising from BSA’s obligation to indemnify and hold Chartered Organizations harmless for any injuries or damages arising out of official scouting activities or arising out of BSA membership standards, including, but not limited to, Indirect Abuse Claims and Claims held by scouts or other Persons for Abuse. Each of the United Methodist Churches set forth in Exhibit B also holds a Claim against BSA arising out of BSA’s obligation to provide Chartered Organizations primary general liability insurance to cover Chartered Organizations and related entities with respect to Claims arising out of an official scouting activity, including, but not limited to, insurance coverage to cover Claims held by scouts or other Persons for Abuse. As of the date of this filing, the amount of each Claimheld by the United Methodist Churches reflected in Exhibit B is unknown. 4. Each of the United Methodist Churches set forth in Exhibit B is a member of one of the Conferences of the United Methodist Church set forth in Exhibit A. Generally, the Conferences of the United Methodist Church provide services to United Methodist Churches within their jurisdictions, including risk management services. https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/865772_1845.pdf 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post gpurlee Posted December 15, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 15, 2020 What concerns me is that this places the largest denominational sponsor of Scouting units and many of the local churches in a potentially adversarial relationship with the BSA. There will be hesitancy to continue to sponsor units at the present time in this type of environment. Many of the United Methodist Churches have sponsored Scouting for decades. A whole new group of church leaders are now working with the packs and troops today and have had no understanding of their role and accountability as an "Owner" of a Scouting unit(s). Unfortunately, most of our COR's have not been trained, do not understand their role or the organization's role and often are not very active with their unit(s). The recent events are dramatically changing how many churches view Scouting. Years ago, Lyle Schaller who was the foremost church consultant at the time, spoke to me about churches and Scouting. His comment was that in his experience consulting with almost 1,000 churches, most organizations viewed Scouting as a community organization housed by the church, not a true ministry of the church unfortunately. Their primarily role was simply to provide a meeting space in the church basement and perhaps host a Scout Sunday. As the mainline congregations aged, they had fewer and fewer of their "own" youth and adults directly involved. I believe that if the plaintiff's attorneys are successful in targeting the chartered organizations, for negligence of oversight, it is likely that the BSA, as we know it today, is over. The first church in this bankruptcy case that has to defend itself for negligence will send a tidal wave through our chartered organizations. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yknot Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 IMO the chartered organization model should never have existed simply because it had too many fatal flaws. I can't remember all my early scouting history, but I hardly think having churches use scouting as youth ministry is what BP had in mind. And not to say that we should be overly concerned with what BP had in mind because what worked then doesn't always work now. But if the general concept is that scouting is a game with a purpose, where does scouts as perpetual Sunday School fit into that? Some COs exert too much influence on scouting to suit their own needs, to the point where units can be wildly different experiences. If you walk into a McDonald's, you ought to be able to get a Big Mac no matter where you are. I think the idea of CO as benign sponsor and provider of space is the right one simply because BSA can't oversee anything more than that. I don't see it as COs not understanding their responsibility; I see it as BSA long abdicating its oversight role. The CO model was neglected for a variety of reasons although mainly financial and numerical and it should have been retooled long before now. The current panic may well result in turning scouting into a hot potato for many chartering organizations, not just churches. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrjohns2 Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 I also can't see a great reason for the chartered org relationship in the first place. I wonder if this has a lot to do with the LDS church involvement. It was perfect for them as it allowed Scouts to be that extension of the church. They owned the equipment, they choose the leaders, they chartered the unit. For nearly every other organization, it may not make much sense. I guess I could see a church saying "hey, we want a neat youth group that goes camping, let's do Scouts BSA!" That is pretty far fetched, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CynicalScouter Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, yknot said: IMO the chartered organization model should never have existed simply because it had too many fatal flaws. My understanding is that this was a point of organizational concern but that National when it was created in 1911 was unable to know who in a community was of good character/good leader but that the COs (originally called "Sponsoring Institution" would. In other words, everyone "knew" that local churches were of good moral character and would therefore do the vetting for Scouting to pick good, moral leaders. Same thing with fraternal organizations, etc. This 1934 Boys Life notes Quote All Troops must be connected with a Sponsoring Institution This can be a church, a school, the American Legion, the Rotary Club, the Ki- wanis Club, the Lions, etc . Of course since then the idea collapsed as COs looked at their role as room/hall rental facilities and nothing more. That's why COs that were nothing more than "Parents of Troop 123, LLC" are frowned upon. So the question comes up: who is going to vet and be sure that the unit leaders at least pass the smell test (forget about whether they are good leaders)? You take the COs out of the equation, then all you have left if councils running criminal and credit background checks and hoping for the best. That's where we are now, of course. But that's not what is going to happen GENERALLY. I've seen the new Council-chartered unit agreement. It basically takes the CO responsibility and places it official on Council. At least that way it is officially on someone who may (or may not) take it seriously because right now I know few if any COs who do. Edited December 15, 2020 by CynicalScouter 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CynicalScouter Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said: I wonder if this has a lot to do with the LDS church involvement. The CO system goes back to 1911. LDS glomed onto Boy Scouts circa 1980s (Varsity Scouting was, in effect, created for the LDS). Edited December 15, 2020 by CynicalScouter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrjohns2 Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said: LDS glomed onto Boy Scouts circa 1980s LDS history goes way way back. Long before Varsity Scouting. 1913 The Church officially joins the Boy Scouts of America as its first charter organization, adopting the program as the activity arm of its Mutual Improvement Association. 1928 The Church designates Scouting as the official activity program for young men ages 12–16. Edited December 15, 2020 by mrjohns2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yknot Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 8 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said: My understanding is that this was a point of organizational concern but that National when it was created in 1911 was unable to know who in a community was of good character/good leader but that the COs (originally called "Sponsoring Institution" would. In other words, everyone "knew" that local churches were of good moral character and would therefore do the vetting for Scouting to pick good, moral leaders. Same thing with fraternal organizations, etc. Of course since then the idea collapsed as COs looked at their role as room/hall rental facilities and nothing more. That's why COs that were nothing more than "Parents of Troop 123, LLC" are frowned upon. So the question comes up: who is going to vet and be sure that the unit leaders at least pass the smell test (forget about whether they are good leaders)? You take the COs out of the equation, then all you have left if councils running criminal and credit background checks and hoping for the best. That's where we are now, of course. But that's not what is going to happen GENERALLY. I've seen the new Council-chartered unit agreement. It basically takes the CO responsibility and places it official on Council. At least that way it is officially on someone who may (or may not) take it seriously because right now I know few if any COs who do. Ahhh... well the days when everyone who was born in a village and then stayed in that village are long gone. I think the difference I see in BSA vs. other youth organizations is that in other organizations every adult is actively, visibly, and continually answerable to someone else. That kind of supervisory relationship doesn't exist in BSA because they kind of farmed it out to the COs but then provided no managerial follow up. You cannot blame a legacy CO, that has been in operation for decades for having no idea the extent of their assumed responsibilities if BSA doesn't inform them and try to correct it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThenNow Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 The Sexual Abuse Survivor Proof of Claim Form, at Sec. 4, Sub P H requests, in pertinent part, the "name and location of the organization that hosted meetings of your Scouting unit, during the time of the sexual abuse." Although it includes a caveat that the CO's, "are not currently parties to the bankruptcy," the question wouldn't be in the POC if there was anything other than the intention to pursue them in the same manner as the LC's. The LC's liability/involvement in the bankruptcy is similarly caveated. I realize you are aware of this, but I think the need to defend against asserted culpability and/or contribute to the yet to established Victims' Compensation Trust is coming. The Methodist Church is clearly braced for it. CO's that are oblivious and believe they are only tangentially a part of Scouting will be caught unaware and unprotected. Further, if national is a shell of its former self, including depleted of assets, preemptive claims against the BSA won't mean much. In states where the SL's are lifted or subject to a look back window, the CO's will now be more clearly a target, as they have raised their heads to seek defense by the BSA. Effectively, they have self-identified as parties to the abuse, targets and viable sources of recovery and awards. Again, just my shiny nickel. I'm too verbose for that to qualify as two cents. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThenNow Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 Correction: That was badly banged up and scarred nickel if ever there was one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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