Chapter 11 announced

[Jameson76]

6 hours ago, TAHAWK said:

Now try, however difficult, to to imagine you face accusations of child sexual abuse from ten - twenty - thirty - forty years ago, and the claim is that there was just the two of you there - victim and abuser.  No other eye-witnesses.  No physical evidence.  No incriminating diary or photographs.  Just your accuser's testimony and the expert(s) hired by claimant's lawyer.   Whatever happens to you will be ""OK" to some  despite the abandoning of centuries-old legal rule intended to protect defendants  from "stale" claims.  Why "OK"? Because of the horrific nature of the alleged crime.   You will never get your day in criminal court because no prosecutor would dream of prosecuting due to the risk of a lawsuit for malicious prosecution.

Reminiscent of Supreme Court Justice confirmation hearings.  No real way to validate or prove truth, you either accept or you are believe in the rule of law want to see evidence.

There is not an easy answer.

As was the case for many of these incidents, there was just the two of them there - victim and abuser.  No other eye-witnesses.  No physical evidence.  No incriminating diary or photographs.  Just the accuser's account.  Families, Councils, Law Enforcement (maybe), Chartering Organizations, Troop Committees...did what they could with what they have at that time

[Eagle94-A1]

7 hours ago, TAHAWK said:

Persons accused of child molestation  have been effectively destroyed, with little or no evidence of guilt, including at least one who could prove beyond any doubt that he could not have been in the state where he supposedly molested children at some of the times when he was accused of having done so.  

Sadly I knew one outstanding volunteer had their reputation destroyed and was kicked out of scouting for supposedly propositioning a Scout. Thankfully the criminal investigation found evidence to support her story that she found the "scout" being a peeping Tom while she was in the showers after hours. But the accusation was enough to destroy her her life.

[ThenNow]

6 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

There is not an easy answer.

Well said. A wiser, more pithy distillation would be very difficult to find. 

[scoutldr]

7 hours ago, TAHAWK said:

The asbestos cases were just getting rolling when I graduated law school  in 1973.  They are still advertising for clients this evening., forty-seven years later  Politicians, effectively, eliminated statures of limitations for such claims.  They now run 2-4 years after you know or reasonable should know a given exposure allegedly caused your disease, even if generations ago.  Expert witnesses are for hire to testify that the date of "discovery" occurred 2 -4 years before you sued. 

I am not a lawyer, but I did spend 40 years in Occupational Health.  The problem with asbestos exposure is the latency period of 40 years or more for mesothelioma.  Statutes of limitation were grossly unfair when a disease did not manifest for 20-40 years post-exposure.  People being diagnosed today may have been exposed as long ago as 1980, and then, even briefly, since there is no known "safe" level of exposure.  Did we know better...of course....but workers are still being exposed today...either through ignorance or blatant disregard for the hazard, either by the employer or employee.  The "we don't need no stinking masks" syndrome is something I have fought since the 70s....it is nothing new.  How is this related to the topic???  We still have units blatantly disregarding the BSA YP rules....and operating units as Co-Ed in blatant disregard for the BSA's intent to have male and female units operating independently.  We are only as safe as our weakest link...

[qwazse]

3 hours ago, ThenNow said:

I understand your point, temporally. I wonder if you know someone well who was repeatedly sexually abused as a child and told no one for 10, 20, 30 or 40 years. If you knew me, for example, I assure you, you’d see a “body.” There’s enough evidence and wreckage, as I said previously, to render a speedy verdict.  

I suspect most of us who are prolific on this blog have known abused and accused abusers (exonerated, convicted, and untried). Some here have written articulately about their experience. I’d like to think that those testimonies written here better prepared me for handling situations of suspected abuse — better than BSA’s current YPT training.

I’d say yours is the first here to articulate a decision to join a massive class action. I appreciate your weighing the pros and cons.

[ThenNow]

1 minute ago, qwazse said:I’d say yours is the first here to articulate a decision to join a massive class action. I appreciate your weighing the pros and cons.

I’m not sure I understand. Are you saying you would appreciate it if I did or appreciate that I have? Before I address the assertion that I made a “decision to join a massive class action,” which this is not, I’d like to be clear. Thank you. 

Side note: Is it truly the case that most of the prolific posters here have a close connection to someone who was sexually abused as a child and/or an accused child sexual abuser? I’m surprised, but that means a lot to me, knowing there is that foundation balancing everyone’s perspective. 
 

[David CO]

10 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

 

Side note: Is it truly the case that most of the prolific posters here have a close connection to someone who was sexually abused as a child and/or an accused child sexual abuser? I’m surprised, but that means a lot to me, knowing there is that foundation balancing everyone’s perspective. 
 

I think that is probably the case.  

[mrjohns2]

29 minutes ago, qwazse said:

I’d like to think that those testimonies written here better prepared me for handling situations of suspected abuse — better than BSA’s current YPT training.

This is a great point. What has made me REALLY understand YPT rules was to read about 20-30 accounts of abuse when the records were released by a California (?) law firm. Wow. They still haunt me a bit. Use of phones and showers and wet gear. Ugh. It made it all really REAL for me. 

[TAHAWK]

10 hours ago, David CO said:

There is an obvious difference between murder and "soul murder".  There is usually proof that a murder actually took place.  We have a body. 

 

Very typically, we indeed do.  

[qwazse]

2 hours ago, ThenNow said:

I’m not sure I understand. Are you saying you would appreciate it if I did or appreciate that I have? Before I address the assertion that I made a “decision to join a massive class action,” which this is not, I’d like to be clear. Thank you. 

Side note: Is it truly the case that most of the prolific posters here have a close connection to someone who was sexually abused as a child and/or an accused child sexual abuser? I’m surprised, but that means a lot to me, knowing there is that foundation balancing everyone’s perspective. 
 

Sorry, I misspoke. Regardless of the technical detail, your deciding whether or not to put your name in as a claimant is not an easy thing to do, let alone describe the decision process and your concerns about how this pans out.

I have no opinion on what you decide, and am in no position to sway your choice. Yes, since grade school (about the time that Mamma warned me that these things do happen and I must oppose them), I have had to deal with this from every angle. Fortunately, the scouting adults who I knew as a youth were defenders from - not perpetrators of - abuse. And, when my boys and daughter joined scouting, that tradition continued. Sadly, for some of my peers and youth I know now, I could not say that about other areas of life.

[ThenNow]

33 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Sorry, I misspoke. Regardless of the technical detail, your deciding whether or not to put your name in as a claimant is not an easy thing to do, let alone describe the decision process and your concerns about how this pans out.

I have no opinion on what you decide, and am in no position to sway your choice. Yes, since grade school (about the time that Mamma warned me that these things do happen and I must oppose them), I have had to deal with this from every angle. Fortunately, the scouting adults who I knew as a youth were defenders from - not perpetrators of - abuse. And, when my boys and daughter joined scouting, that tradition continued. Sadly, for some of my peers and youth I know now, I could not say that about other areas of life.

Gotcha. Thank you. Truly. I’m not a piteous person nor someone who enjoys being an attorney on many days, watching the negative stereotype being solidified in the minds of many. I’ll drone and repeat myself to say that I believe tort reform is so overdue and simultaneously unlikely that I have a pit in my stomach watching what goes on. It’s atrocious. I say that even though my father died of cancer at 63, likely due to years of exposure to toxic chemicals.  

As to filing a claim in this case, I’ll offer some context. I had been waiting to have some avenue of recourse since after my breakdown in 2001. I pursued all legal angles and, although other abused men were found, vetted and contacted by law enforcement, none were willing to come forward. Each are about 7-10 years younger than I am and live in or near our hometown. I completely understood. For what it’s worth, it never crossed my mind to pursue the BSA, our Local Council or Chartering Organization. Not once. I still have: all my medals; merit badge and OA sashes; pocket patches; neckerchiefs; first draft Eagle Application; some merit badge and rank cards; the panoramic photo of my Vigil honor cohorts and I when we received our new sashes; Summer Camp, Cub Days Staff patches and such; excursion and wilderness patches; my grandfather‘s, father’s and uncle’s Scout knives, along with mine; as well as my dad’s and my Cub and Boy Scout Handbooks. I got rid of that bloody deep sea diver skill award belt, however. All I wanted was a chance to put him in jail. A civil remedy was secondary, at best. The filing on February 18 of this year was the open window and, more than likely, the one and only redress I will ever have. As others have stated and I repeated, I hate that he is not in the mix to stand account for his crimes.

Further, again for general gee whiz, I am not represented in this matter, potentially to my financial detriment. I wanted this to be my fight on behalf of my wife and kids, far more than mine. My ‘weapons’ are admittedly blunted and I frustrated and stymied, standing outside the process peering in. As I watch and see what has come of it, the tens of millions of dollars flying out of the door for attorneys multiple times a month, it exacerbates the pain and familiar feelings of powerlessness and being ‘abused’. That may not be relevant or experiential understandable to some, but that’s where I am. I shouldn’t suggest that some of the claims are unfounded, specious or truly contrived, but that’s also the way I feel.

I appreciate you guys allowing me to be a part of this. If anyone judges me for what I’m doing, I don’t have a problem with that. None. It may be hurtful, but as my grandpa liked to say, I’m pretty much “touch as a two-dollar steak.”

[Mrjeff]

I just don't know what's going to happen.  Every person who is involved, no matter where they fit in, have their own reasons for doing so.  It may greed, recourse, retribution or revenge, I don't know.  What I do know is this whole bucket of $h!t has cast a huge black shadow over the Boy Scouts of America. To say that the Boy Scouts "ain't what it used to be" is an understatement, but very little is. One thing that hasn't changed is the fact that Scouting is still a fine organization that can benefit young people for years to come.  I look forward to the day when campfire talks no longer include bankruptcy,  child abuse,  tort law, lawyers and victims.  I long for the days of talking about summer camps, canoe trips, wood badge, and how to splice a rope.  One day this whole thing will be behind us and it will be up to us to pick up whatever pieces are left, and Scout On!  

[yknot]

1 hour ago, ThenNow said:

I appreciate you guys allowing me to be a part of this. If anyone judges me for what I’m doing, I don’t have a problem with that. None. It may be hurtful, but as my grandpa liked to say, I’m pretty much “touch as a two-dollar steak.”

I support what you are doing. Anyone who was abused in scouting should have filed. You and others like you who were truly hurt deserve closure or resolution, or at least as much as is possible. There are no good answers here for either children who were hurt or for the organization.  

[RememberSchiff]

The Tort Claimants Committee (TCC) seeks to quickly employ and retain CBRE,

an experienced real estate advisor to assist in estimating the value of the Real Properties2 held by the Local Councils. The value of the Real Properties will help determine the Local Council’s contribution towards a victims compensation trust to receive the benefit of a channeling injunction under a plan. The TCC will need the valuations to engage in plan negotiations and mediation currently taking place in these Cases. The TCC has determined that CBRE is the best and most cost effective real estate advisor to perform the services contemplated by the Application.

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/864386_1786.pdf

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/864539_1793.pdf

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/864572_1796.pdf

 

[Eagle1993]

19 pages of emails to inform all of the groups of claimants … wow, this has grown.