Chapter 11 announced

[ParkMan]

30 minutes ago, Sentinel947 said:

I was being facetious. Since commenters on the Wapo article were calling for the BSA to be abolished. If every organization that failed to handle sexual abuse of minors historically was abolished, there would be no youth serving organizations left. 

The sad thing is that these sort of faux outrage opinion pieces is why the BSA has the problem is does.  It's far too easy for someone to come out and take a hard line against an obvious target.  It's another to actually have actually really thought through the issues behind them and have a real solution.  It's why I have zero respect for these kind of hand wringing articles and statements.

[David CO]

1 hour ago, ParkMan said:

The sad thing is that these sort of faux outrage opinion pieces is why the BSA has the problem is does. 

I don't think so.  The problem isn't that BSA is getting bad press.  The problem is that many thousands of scouts were sexually molested in scouting.  There is no faux outrage here.  The outrage is real.

[ParkMan]

41 minutes ago, David CO said:

I don't think so.  The problem isn't that BSA is getting bad press.  The problem is that many thousands of scouts were sexually molested in scouting.  There is no faux outrage here.  The outrage is real.

I retract my comments and the "faux" part.  That was categorically wrong of me to state that and I did so solely out of frustration.  There is no excuse for what I wrote and you are right to call me on it.  Sexual abuse is wrong.  The BSA was wrong.  Anything and everything should be done to protect the kids we serve.  Everyone who was abused deserves compensation and to be made whole.

I am just frustrated by the lack of constructive ideas to preserve the program itself.  I wrongly thought the Washington Post should have made a more constructive suggestion here.  I let my frustration at the situation get the better of me.

[David CO]

48 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

I am just frustrated by the lack of constructive ideas to preserve the program itself.  I wrongly thought the Washington Post should have made a more constructive suggestion here. 

I'm frustrated too.  Been so for a long time now.  

[HICO_Eagle]

2 hours ago, ParkMan said:

I am just frustrated by the lack of constructive ideas to preserve the program itself.  I wrongly thought the Washington Post should have made a more constructive suggestion here.  I let my frustration at the situation get the better of me.

The problem is that many people/organizations -- including the Washington Post -- have been trying to destroy Scouting and other societal institutions for decades as part of their agenda for change.  Looking to WaPo for constructive ideas to preserve the program would be like looking to Karl Marx for ideas to preserve capitalism or Cortez for ideas to preserve the Incas.  Nothing we suggest to preserve the program will be sufficient for them because destruction of the program is their ultimate goal.

BSA would have been pilloried for publicly "outing" people it suspected but had no hard evidence against -- and rightly so.  When I first heard about the secret files, I expected they were an attempt to protect youth without risking defamation lawsuits, which is about all they could do in those days absent law enforcement making a case against the people in question.  And how many of the people in the files were in fact innocent of any pedophilia?

The lawyers in many cases are just after the money - especially money from a large class action suit.  The way tobacco settlement money was misused by state governments and tort lawyers should be a warning to all.

The assaults were real but if the activists were serious about protecting youth, they'd be pursuing NAMBLA and like organizations instead of BSA and various churches but of course it's politically incorrect to point out that while various organizations were wrong for concealing cases, the REAL damage came from the individual behaviors which ironically seem to be promoted by Hollywood and other forces.

[David CO]

20 minutes ago, HICO_Eagle said:

 

The assaults were real but if the activists were serious about protecting youth, they'd be pursuing NAMBLA and like organizations instead of BSA 

 

You make some excellent points.  But I don't think this is an either/or situation.  We can pursue all groups that molest children.  

[HICO_Eagle]

8 minutes ago, David CO said:

You make some excellent points.  But I don't think this is an either/or situation.  We can pursue all groups that molest children.  

BSA as a group didn't molest children nor did it protect child molesters as a group.  Some individuals feared publicity would harm the organization but the organization in general tried to keep people with that predilection out.  You can certainly argue that it was too sweeping with the bans but just what guidelines would you propose absent criminal records (which WERE immediate disqualifiers depending on the crimes)?

Unfortunately, BSA is on a course toward settlement.  IMO, settlement will not end this because ultimately, it's not what the activists want.  This has been a decades-long fight for America's soul and we've been losing bit-by-bit in part because we haven't wanted to angry or mean and have been unwilling to point out the forces trying to tear down America in the name of <pick your agenda>.  Unfortunately, the only way to fight this would have been to take the offensive and I don't even know if that would have worked given the increasing stranglehold they've taken on the mainstream media, entertainment, education, and legal systems.

[yknot]

20 minutes ago, HICO_Eagle said:

BSA as a group didn't molest children nor did it protect child molesters as a group.  Some individuals feared publicity would harm the organization but the organization in general tried to keep people with that predilection out.  You can certainly argue that it was too sweeping with the bans but just what guidelines would you propose absent criminal records (which WERE immediate disqualifiers depending on the crimes)?

Unfortunately, BSA is on a course toward settlement.  IMO, settlement will not end this because ultimately, it's not what the activists want.  This has been a decades-long fight for America's soul and we've been losing bit-by-bit in part because we haven't wanted to angry or mean and have been unwilling to point out the forces trying to tear down America in the name of <pick your agenda>.  Unfortunately, the only way to fight this would have been to take the offensive and I don't even know if that would have worked given the increasing stranglehold they've taken on the mainstream media, entertainment, education, and legal systems.

BSA is in this situation because of BSA. I agree BSA is not in a position to take the offensive but it could at least defend itself-- meaning the units and those still laboring in them. We have had months of silent and absent leadership at the top that has not even responded to the most egregious of claims. What's been leaked from the Churchill Project clearly shows there is no hope of an innovative restructuring, it's just business as usual.  There's been no communication down to the unit level as we've proceeded through this mess. This is not normal for a viable organization. Even the most Cracker Jack of companies attempts to communicate with its people in the field through a crisis.

[David CO]

2 hours ago, HICO_Eagle said:

BSA as a group didn't molest children nor did it protect child molesters as a group. 

Just about everybody will see a settlement as an admission of guilt.

[SSScout]

7 hours ago, David CO said:

Just about everybody will see a settlement as an admission of guilt.

The question then becomes, admission of what guilt, exactly?    BSA did not, organizationally, abuse children.  BSA, thru it's bad decisions, (leaders are people?) allowed pedophiles to go on their merry way without the legal, criminal,  consequences they deserved.  The "Secret List"  did not do what it was intended to do: protect the children.  It didn't even protect the BSA. Merely removing BSA leaders from PoR (!) did not, ultimately, prevent them from going someplace else, and doing it again.  In another Scout Troop, in another church Youth Ministry, to their nephew and niece.  That is what BSA is guilty of.   

What is the saddest part of this is that most of the perpetrators are long gone, and THEY cannot be brought to take responsibility for their actions and help to "make the victims whole". 

The Class Action Suit(s)  are taking their pound of flesh from the BSA, but how much , if any, can be got from the actual perpetrators? 

[yknot]

34 minutes ago, SSScout said:

What is the saddest part of this is that most of the perpetrators are long gone, and THEY cannot be brought to take responsibility for their actions and help to "make the victims whole". 

The Class Action Suit(s)  are taking their pound of flesh from the BSA, but how much , if any, can be got from the actual perpetrators? 

The vast majority of people who have filed claims are in their 40s to 50s and some younger.  That means many if not most perpetrators are likely still alive today. It's not clear to me either how they will be held accountable as part of this bankruptcy process but I hope that's part of it. 

[David CO]

4 hours ago, SSScout said:

The question then becomes, admission of what guilt, exactly?   

People won't care what BSA exactly admits to.  The numbers will tell the story.  If the numbers are anywhere close to what they are now claiming,  BSA will be found guilty in the court of  public opinion.

[Eagledad]

22 minutes ago, David CO said:

People won't care what BSA exactly admits to.  The numbers will tell the story.  If the numbers are anywhere close to what they are now claiming,  BSA will be found guilty in the court of  public opinion.

Obviously you have a strong opinion. But it's just an opinion.

After watching the last national elections, my opinion is judgement will be whatever the national media says it is.

Barry

[BlueandSilverBear]

In the midst of the chaos, yesterday was a good reminder for me about why I love Scouting and all the good that it does.

Our Lions held a holiday food drive and collected four bags of canned goods to support a local food panty, and the Girls Troop at our CO just had their 4th successful Eagle Board of Review at the same park while we had our Den meeting.  

Edited November 23, 2020 by BlueandSilverBear

[ThenNow]

This is a general post, my first on the forum. I have read this thread from the beginning. If you have access, of which I'm unsure as a newbie, you can see my background.

I'm both a former high-achieving Scout and Sexual Abuse Survivor Claimant in the Chapter 11. I have many thoughts on this matter overall. Most notably, the potential for Scouting to survive and how the case has evolved, especially as it concerns the incredible - and I use the word advisedly and specifically - number of claims. Like many of you and others I know, my expectation was to see a maximum number of 5,000-10,000 claims, with ten being an unlikely high end. In retrospect, I admit that was probably unreasonably low number given the situation and opportunity it presented. I am one of the 'boys' whose experience was egregious, long-term, varied in the nature of abuse, involved other boys and had devastating life impacts. As of the writing of this post, I am still trying to recover. It's a daily effort. My family has suffered in ways I try not to contemplate. I have two grown boys and it's not infrequent that I weep when looking back over how I failed them, largely as result of my own frailty stemming from the abuse.

Having said that, I am grieved at the way attorneys have swooped into this difficult process, 'gill netting' stables of possible claimants which, in my personal and professional assessment, almost certainly contain many specious or absurdly minute claims. I saw one media story where a man discussed his life trauma after a childhood Scout leader, "put his hand on my leg in a suggestive way." Good grief. For those of us with easily verified and highly credible claims, this dilution of the eventual Victims Compensation Trust feels like a repeat of what happened to us - abuse by those who should be taking great care to protect us. Through the greed and opportunism of supposed advocates, many will suffer. I include the BSA in that, as I still look fondly on my involvement with Scouting, which many who know me cannot, and never will, understand.

The net practical result of where we are now is a choke point bottleneck. There is no way the Authorized Reviewer will be able to review, verify, assess and quantify damages for this number of claims. Again, in my personal and professional assessment, this becomes a try to slice the kitty and parse out the pennies. I believe it was the goal of one group of claim aggregators and attorneys to create this scenario. The increase of the kitty, forced by the large number of claims, will most likely yield the largest benefit to attorneys, including those representing the BSA, claimants, insurance companies and the various committees. Some are and will continue to amass enormous piles of hourly fees, while the claimant attorneys receive 40+/-% of the awards coming to their stable of men. For me, this is disheartening and discouraging, having hoped for the "equitable compensation" promised as one of the two goals of this reorganization. As it stands, I fear neither goal will be achieved. I am holding out hope that my family will receive a fair measure of compensation for financial devastation caused, not to mention the psychological, physical and emotional wreckage.

I'm open to questions. Or, feel free to allow my thoughts stand as a single post adding a new voice and perspective. Forgive any typos or the like. This was hard to write.  

Thanks, guys.