walk in the woods Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 8 minutes ago, carebear3895 said: Except that it's not. A program fee is strictly a council fee, none of that goes to the National Council. Program fee's usually come when FOS starts to dry up. Got to keep the lights on somehow. Please, stop pushing hysteria and false information. A Scout is trustworthy, sir. Except money is fungible. Implement a program fee to replace FOS. This then allows money from other sources that might have been spent on program for councils to invest in the BSA's victims fund. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jameson76 Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 Interesting take from Philmont on the Bankruptcy...pretty much - yep BSA filed Chapter 11, but we have meals to pack for summer treks (and I expect they sort of implied that The woods are lovely dark and deep. But I have promises to keep, And miles to go before I sleep,) =============================================================== Today the Boy Scouts of America filed Chapter 11 Bankruptcy (Learn more: www.BSARestructuring.org). At Philmont, we continue to prepare for 22,000 Scouts to hike our trails this summer. We are happy to report that our food packing team is hard at work packing more than 700,000 trail meals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParkMan Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 13 minutes ago, Jameson76 said: You lose Philmont, you've lost the legacy of 80 + years of multi-generational High Adventure. That would be a gut punch to the organization I think Philmont will be interesting. I believe it could very likely be a casualty here. Let's face it - it's not essential to what we do. Yes, it enriches the program for many, but it's not essential. We, American citizens, had an opportunity to fight this politically and did not. As a result, we now roll the dice. I will not be surprised if Philmont and many local camps get sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeptic Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 5 hours ago, qwazse said: This stat is small comfort. There were more than twice as many scouts more than thirty years ago, maybe more than 4x as many. All of these measures, and we've reduced the probability of actionable abuse by 1/2? No amount of money, nor tombs of protective rules can keep a few of the deviants from their goals. All we can do is use the tools on hand and find better ways to strengthen them. Meanwhile, maybe we can create a miracle and bring common sense and societal responsibility back; but do not hold your breath. One thing that would help, but because we live in a greedy, egocentric society, likely will not, is to fix the legal system to be fair but not destructive. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David CO Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 40 minutes ago, dkurtenbach said: However strong our current youth protection program is, we still have three weak links: the overwhelming predominance of volunteers operating in highly autonomous units I totally disagree. The fact that my unit is highly autonomous will help to insulate us from the bankruptcy. The council is not so highly autonomous. It will have a much harder time showing the bankruptcy court that it is not a functional unit of BSA. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkurtenbach Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, David CO said: I totally disagree. The fact that my unit is highly autonomous will help to insulate us from the bankruptcy. The council is not so highly autonomous. It will have a much harder time showing the bankruptcy court that it is not a functional unit of BSA. I'm actually talking about possible weaknesses in our youth protection program that may affect the marketability of our program to parents, not what organizational components could be swept into the bankruptcy proceedings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carebear3895 Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 34 minutes ago, David CO said: A scout is trustworthy, but a scout executive is not. That is why BSA is in bankruptcy. or you know.....the sexual abuse cases. Which is literally in the bankruptcy filing document. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carebear3895 Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 This needs to be said: LOCAL COUNCILS ARE LEGALLY AND FINANCIALLY INDEPENDENT FROM THE NATIONAL COUNCIL. The Chapter 11 financial restructuring will not affect your local scouting experience. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malraux Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 29 minutes ago, ParkMan said: I think Philmont will be interesting. I believe it could very likely be a casualty here. Let's face it - it's not essential to what we do. Yes, it enriches the program for many, but it's not essential. I would assume that philmont would be the last of the 4 to be sold off though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattR Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 Just now, malraux said: I would assume that philmont would be the last of the 4 to be sold off though. Because of the mortgage on Philmont the creditors can't go after it. The bank owns it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David CO Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, carebear3895 said: LOCAL COUNCILS ARE LEGALLY AND FINANCIALLY INDEPENDENT FROM THE NATIONAL COUNCIL. I suppose that is one of the issues the bankruptcy court will determine. Good luck with that argument. From a unit prospective, I can't see much of a separation between council and national. I think the bankruptcy court will see that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeS72 Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, MattR said: Because of the mortgage on Philmont the creditors can't go after it. The bank owns it. Based on what we were told a week and a half ago, Philmont is only part of the guarantee for a $75 million dollar recurring line of credit, which includes ALL BSA national assets, including national headquarters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David CO Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 4 minutes ago, MattR said: Because of the mortgage on Philmont the creditors can't go after it. The bank owns it. My understanding is that a bankruptcy court can go back and nullify any financial actions, including a mortgage, that was done to protect assets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carebear3895 Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 (edited) 38 minutes ago, David CO said: I suppose that is one of the issues the bankruptcy court will determine. Good luck with that argument. From a unit prospective, I can't see much of a separation between council and national. I think the bankruptcy court will see that too. no. I'm sorry, but at this point you are making things up to help your argument. Councils are their own independent 501c3s. That is a fact. I'm really not trying to be a jerk, but your "unit perspective" doesn't matter when it comes to this. National and councils are completely legally and financially separate from one another. National has done a very good job at making that clear in all the bankruptcy publications. Edited February 18, 2020 by carebear3895 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattR Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, David CO said: A scout is trustworthy, but a scout executive is not. That is why BSA is in bankruptcy. @David CO, that's a rather broad brush, and given that we have scout executives on this forum, let's think courteous. You may see this as a great opportunity to fix things, but for the people working for the BSA, through no fault of most of them, this is a kick in the teeth. Quote My understanding is that a bankruptcy court can go back and nullify any financial actions, including a mortgage, that was done to protect assets. Well, that just stuck a pin in my friend's argument. Edited February 18, 2020 by MattR 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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