Chapter 11 announced

[Eagle1993]

Just saw a document for the TCC fees.  December 1 through Dec 30 ... 1 month.  Total fees, paid out of BSA's funds, $850K.  Nearly $1M a month for the TCC lawyers.  

Kosnoff is posting their info on Twitter as he is calling the lead lawyer of the TCC #mrCashIN.  It appears he believes their goal is to simply extend the bankruptcy indefinitely as they make $1M a month in fees.  This is regardless of a settlement results.

Now he is pushing for liquidation of National to remove any protection of LCs where he believes the big $ is.

This whole thing is sad .... its time for the Judge to start making some decisions.  Sounds like April could be a major month.

 

[elitts]

On 3/5/2021 at 2:45 PM, ThenNow said:

CHILD USA and multiple state legislatures strongly disagree with you on this point. I have spoke with the both groups numerous times about this case and the matter of state by state SoL reform.

I suspect there will continue to be intermittent successes on expanding SoL laws right up until someone manages tie in government agencies in a big way because of it.  As soon as you get some youth Sport League getting sued and the local Parks and Rec Dept gets thrown in for good measure because they sponsor the program, I think you'll see major expansions start to dry up.

The fact of the matter is, for as much as some states really need/needed to expand their SoL laws (places where you only had to age 21) These unlimited look-back periods are truly horrible public policy.  The ONLY purpose for them is to allow people to file class action suits where there is zero intention to actually litigate a claim in court because in the vast majority of cases, a plaintiff filing a claim on something from 20-60 years ago would ever be able to prove the claim in court.

[fred8033]

4 hours ago, elitts said:

I suspect there will continue to be intermittent successes on expanding SoL laws right up until someone manages tie in government agencies in a big way because of it.  As soon as you get some youth Sport League getting sued and the local Parks and Rec Dept gets thrown in for good measure because they sponsor the program, I think you'll see major expansions start to dry up.

It will never happen.  BSA and Catholic church were perfect targets.  Massive targets with deep cash.  BSA even provided tracking records from their attempt to block bad volunteers.   Government agencies, youth and sport, parks and rec are usually city sized.  Just not big enough for a national class action campaign looking back 50 years. 

[ThenNow]

13 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

Now he is pushing for liquidation of National to remove any protection of LCs where he believes the big $ is.

Depending on how policies are written - insured/additional named insured, per occurrence/claims made, and etc. - liquidation and leaving the LC's to fend off suits may or may not be a great thing for plaintiff's attorneys. Do all policies stand and delivery after the principal insured is liquidated? Granted, some LC's have big coin and property assets, so that may be plenty, but if the number of survivor plaintiffs is too high, it's likely to be a race to the trough. 

[ThenNow]

13 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

Just saw a document for the TCC fees.  December 1 through Dec 30 ... 1 month.  Total fees, paid out of BSA's funds, $850K.  Nearly $1M a month for the TCC lawyers.  

Kosnoff is posting their info on Twitter as he is calling the lead lawyer of the TCC #mrCashIN.  It appears he believes their goal is to simply extend the bankruptcy indefinitely as they make $1M a month in fees.  This is regardless of a settlement results.

Now he is pushing for liquidation of National to remove any protection of LCs where he believes the big $ is.

This whole thing is sad .... its time for the Judge to start making some decisions.  Sounds like April could be a major month.

I think TCC counsel was taken completely by surprise when the claim numbers skyrocketed. It is a complex case, no doubt. Other than those who assert that "each BSA sexual predator likely abused an average of 100 victims," no one I know expected this. I believe that rough average has some "lifetime of a sexual predator" research backing it up, but extrapolating it across every application and context is scientifically and statistically disingenuous. 

He who shall not be named noted this 100x potential in press conferences back when, particularly at the presser launching AIS. HWSNBN clearly intended to create this choke point in the case. I honestly don't know if it was purely to control the case and max out the 40% bank run or ensure he could crash it. In so doing, the crew of hedge fund aggregating miners have ensured the attorneys billing the Estate hourly can take the case to the bank. Sad definitely sums it up. As I said above, I watch those monthly applications for fees and expenses and shake my head. They faithfully roll across the docket straight to the accountant stroking checks like so much confetti flying around a ticker-tape parade.

Edited March 8, 2021 by ThenNow

[Eagle1993]

4 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

I think TCC counsel was taken completely by surprise when the claim numbers skyrocketed. It is a complex case, no doubt. Other than those who assert that "each BSA sexual predator likely abused an average of 100 victims," no one I know expected this. I believe that rough average has some "lifetime of a sexual predator" research backing it up, but extrapolating it across every application and context is scientifically and statistically disingenuous. 

He who shall not be named noted this 100x potential in press conferences back when, particularly at the presser launching AIS. HWSNBN clearly intended to create this choke point in the case. I honestly don't know if it was purely to control the case and max out the 40% bank run or ensure he could crash it. In so doing, the crew of hedge fund aggregating miners have ensured the attorneys billing the Estate hourly can take the case to the bank. Sad definitely sums it up. As I said above, I watch those monthly applications for fees and expenses and shake my head. They faithfully roll across the docket straight to the accountant stroking checks like so much confetti flying around a ticker-tape parade.

What surprised me is an hourly billing rate for lawyers of $1,195.  Paralegals billing at $425.  Is that typical? One lawyer billed 96.9 hours and made $116K. When people talk of the 40% of any settlement going to lawyers, they are not even including these fees.  Since BSA is paying these directly + their own legal fees + 40% of the settlement ... I can only imagine lawyers are likely getting 50% of the available assets of the Boy Scouts of America.  

This is tough to stomach.  

FYI .. this guy has a history of cashing in as a victim trust lawyer.

https://wislawjournal.com/2013/01/25/archdiocese-of-milwaukee-wants-judge-to-stop-payments-to-attorneys/

[CynicalScouter]

On 3/6/2021 at 4:38 PM, MattR said:

What got us to this point? The trust between units and council is poor.

"Do it, or we get sued out of existence."

or

"Do it, or your charter will not be renewed."

It is going to take that heavy of a hammer for some units.

I don't care if you love or loathe Council. Some units need to get the message that they won't have a BSA if they don't get into line.

Edited March 8, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[CynicalScouter]

14 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

Now he is pushing for liquidation of National to remove any protection of LCs where he believes the big $ is.

That's been his push for 4-5 years. His avowed purpose is BSA's demise.

[ThenNow]

35 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

What surprised me is an hourly billing rate for lawyers of $1,195.  Paralegals billing at $425.  Is that typical?

2018 Snapshot:

Here are the median fees according to the type of case:

• Administrative $813
• Bankruptcy $1,200
• Collections $450
• Contracts $600
• Corporate $800
• Criminal $750
• Elder Law $788
• Family Law $1,538
• Immigration $950
• Juvenile $538
• Real Estate $535
• Small Claims $478
• Traffic $300
• Wills & Estates $750

[ThenNow]

1 hour ago, Eagle1993 said:

When people talk of the 40% of any settlement going to lawyers, they are not even including these fees.  Since BSA is paying these directly + their own legal fees + 40% of the settlement ... I can only imagine lawyers are likely getting 50% of the available assets of the Boy Scouts of America.  

If the case is broken down to BSA and its affiliates, survivor claimants and attorneys/law firms, the preponderance of the "benefit," particularly financial reward, will go to Team Three on BSA Bankruptcy Survivor Island. I've discovered that cases like this one, and big law bankruptcy specifically, is a very small world. Only two firms were in Delaware to interview before the TCC for the role of counsel. Two. Cases like this are the best advertising imaginable and the promo is not merely free, but you get paid when the ads run. In a transactional case like this with forced compromise, you don't even have to "win." I'm not casting aspersions on these firms or attorneys, just stating facts. 

As to negative impact or repercussions, as much as I imagine most here will say it is the program for current and future Scouts, I say it is the survivor claimants, many of whom will get little or nothing. For me, this has been a literal near death experience. And, it's no where near at the denouement. Regarding National, I don't see this being particularly painful for "them," after hearing your stories and the reports from the field, as it were.

Edited March 8, 2021 by ThenNow

[ThenNow]

1 hour ago, Eagle1993 said:

FYI

Representation Examples:

• Tort litigants' committees in the chapter 11 cases of  the Catholic Diocese of Spokane (Washington) and the Diocese of Davenport (Iowa); creditors' committees in the chapter 11 cases of the Roman Catholic Bishop of San Diego, the Catholic Diocese of Fairbanks (Alaska), the Catholic Diocese of Wilmington (Delaware), the Society of Jesus, Oregon Province, the related cases of The Christian Brothers of Ireland, Inc. and The Christian Brothers Institute, the Archdiocese of Milwaukee, the Roman Catholic Church of the Diocese of Gallup (New Mexico), the Roman Catholic Bishop of Helena (Montana), the Roman Catholic Bishop of Stockton (California), the Roman Catholic Bishop of Great Falls (Montana), the Roman Catholic Church of the Archdiocese of Santa Fe (New Mexico), the Diocese of Rochester (New York), the Diocese of Buffalo (New York), the Roman Catholic Church for the Archdiocese of New Orleans
• Creditors' committee in Weinstein Company Holdings
• Abuse survivors' committees in USA Gymnastics, Boy Scouts of America
• Subcommittee of employee organizations in Orange County chapter 9 case
• Chapter 11 debtors in American Suzuki Motor Corporation; Gateway Educational Products (manufacturer of "Hooked on Phonics"); American Tissue; Chippendales; Inacom Corporation; Rhodes Homes; Sizzler Restaurants International; Superior TeleCom
• Bankruptcy counsel for the Tobacco Committee of the National Association of Attorneys General
• Receiver appointed for various car dealerships (Nissan, Porsche, Audi, Toyota)

[ThenNow]

15 hours ago, elitts said:

The fact of the matter is, for as much as some states really need/needed to expand their SoL laws (places where you only had to age 21) These unlimited look-back periods are truly horrible public policy.  The ONLY purpose for them is to allow people to file class action suits where there is zero intention to actually litigate a claim in court because in the vast majority of cases, a plaintiff filing a claim on something from 20-60 years ago would ever be able to prove the claim in court.

Again, personal and anecdotal, but my thoughts for what they're worth.

I never wanted or even thought about suing the BSA or our church for the abuse I suffered. I wanted at the perpetrator. I started in 2003 and was already too late. I see your point about the runaway train that these look-back windows can (and do) create. I get it. For me, I would have been perfectly happy going after him in criminal and civl court. I say, lift all child sexual abuse SoL's against perpetrators and direct accomplices. I could prove that case, in part by expanding to include other victim/witnesses. Case One: Sexual predator goes to jail for a very long time, possibly some of those complicit for a few years as gravy. Case Two: He loses his house, boat and assets, plus we get a few coin from his homeowners policy, since some of my repeated abuse occurred there and his wife knew about it.  

In this case, we see not only the runaway train of legal fees, enhancing the wealth of the attorneys, but the residual damage and revisited trauma for survivors who came out of hiding to file claims. Like me, they were promised "equitable compensation." Vague as that is, it was a tremendous banner of hope, and will soon end up with precious little for their genuine grief. False hope, I'm afraid. I'm only in this position, in this case and on this forum because I was invited by misters Mosby and Turley.

[MattR]

I'm going to split off the YPT/quality sub thread into a new one. So, if your post suddenly moves, that's why.

It went here:

I will move posts to that one for a while

Edited March 8, 2021 by MattR

[T2Eagle]

50 minutes ago, yknot said:

I'm confused. Maybe it's just our council, but we cannot recharter unless everyone on the charter has a current YPT through the coming year. It will get kicked back. At the unit level, we further require every parent to have YPT or we will not accept registration.

I would not hold us up as any great example though. There is a disturbing history of leadership not taking YPT or G2SS all that seriously. But at least everyone has been through the training. Parents have to take the training in order for them to understand the rules. 

 

Edited March 8, 2021 by T2Eagle
Moved to other thread

[Eagle1993]

Interested in seeing assets of various councils (at least based upon financial disclosures).  You can see them here:

https://www.causeiq.com/directory/scouting-organizations-list/

Note that single councils could have multiple lines of entry.