ThenNow Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said: My point is that even the 9 TCC victims care, of 50% of the victims care or 60% of the victims care, it only takes 33% of abuse victims to say "no" and BSA's dead. I understand and appreciate that, and don't care to meddle in the projections of how what happens when and by what vote. I'm no good at it. I am merely pointing out, which I know some don't or won't believe, that this is not a "battle" these men entered into with bloodthirsty glee. I realize you are talking about the practical application, as you absolutely should. How someone feels or doesn't is irrelevant to that equation, but the TCC is people, not the Death Star. It's okay to portray them as such, but I've chimed in with my two denarii. Edited March 14, 2021 by ThenNow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David CO Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 I am not going to quote anyone specifically, since many people have commented about how the lawsuits are unfair to current and future scouts. It is unfair, but no more unfair than the national debt. They are going to inherit that too. They will also inherit all of the nation's infrastructure. It is important to remember that our kids didn't build any of these camps. They inherited the camps. Past generations built them and paid for them. The generations that built these camps are the same generations that allowed the child sexual abuse. They are paying for it. After the bankruptcy, current and future scouts will be starting anew with a clean slate. It will now be up to them to build their own futures. I wish them luck. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitiveScouter Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 52 minutes ago, ThenNow said: I have a standard WSJ script, but don't pay for Pro. Is there a posting of the piece elsewhere? https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:9njI0wvesicJ:https://info.creditriskmonitor.com/NewsStory.aspx%3FNewsId%3D27327662%26rc%3DW02FM26EFW02S7261U+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThenNow Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 (edited) 19 minutes ago, David CO said: I am not going to quote anyone specifically, since many people have commented about how the lawsuits are unfair to current and future scouts. It is unfair, but no more unfair than the national debt. They are going to inherit that too. They will also inherit all of the nation's infrastructure. It is important to remember that our kids didn't build any of these camps. They inherited the camps. Past generations built them and paid for them. The generations that built these camps are the same generations that allowed the child sexual abuse. They are paying for it. After the bankruptcy, current and future scouts will be starting anew with a clean slate. It will now be up to them to build their own futures. I wish them luck. I am sorry that this is the case and I agree. It's terrible, but my wife and sons also paid dearly for destructive things they did not do, deserve or play any part in unleashing. Perhaps even worse than if I caused it, the debt was created by injustices done to me. Nonetheless, they inherited it. Awful on all counts. Edited March 14, 2021 by ThenNow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vol_scouter Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 28 minutes ago, David CO said: I am not going to quote anyone specifically, since many people have commented about how the lawsuits are unfair to current and future scouts. It is unfair, but no more unfair than the national debt. They are going to inherit that too. They will also inherit all of the nation's infrastructure. It is important to remember that our kids didn't build any of these camps. They inherited the camps. Past generations built them and paid for them. The generations that built these camps are the same generations that allowed the child sexual abuse. They are paying for it. After the bankruptcy, current and future scouts will be starting anew with a clean slate. It will now be up to them to build their own futures. I wish them luck. You are correct in saying that the current youth did not build the camps. My guess is that few of the abusers built the camps either though there are no doubt high profile exceptions. Essentially none are 'paying for it' as most are dead or elderly and not involved with the program. It will not come from the pockets of volunteers except from those of us who will try to rebuild Scouting after it is devastated. The life changing experiences might not occur without camps as often. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CynicalScouter Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 (edited) FYI. I ran the statistical analysis I had intended on the abuse claims data vs. the number of youth in BSA. As I suspected, the number of claims and number of registered youth were found to be strongly correlated. In other words, it gives credence to the idea that it wasn't YPT that resulted in the decline in abuse claims; it was the decline in the number of scouts. Large positive relationship: Pearson r = 0.86, p < .01. Strong positive relationship: Spearman rho = 0.94. p < .01 This cannot and does not mean that we can demonstrate a causal relationship (correlation does not equal causation) but it is very, very interesting and could suggest that maybe, perhaps that the decline in abuse claims is mostly, if not entirely, the result of a decline in the number of registered youth. But the only way to determine that is with more analysis. Year Total Youth Total Claims 1990 3918672 1,125 1991 3501233 977 1992 3453315 947 1993 3427374 902 1994 3403334 843 1995 3460795 782 1996 3518255 759 1997 3624038 662 1998 3693439 635 1999 3742852 538 2000 3351969 532 2001 3325504 369 2002 3238027 357 2003 3200218 325 2004 3145331 241 2005 2938698 227 2006 2868963 202 2007 2855833 171 2008 2979200 159 2009 2911351 136 2010 2852754 120 2011 2836652 94 2012 2775383 88 2013 2612955 57 2014 2418727 57 2015 2355331 35 2016 2341207 38 2017 2282584 47 2018 2186329 36 2019 2118449 18 Edited March 14, 2021 by CynicalScouter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vol_scouter Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 27 minutes ago, ThenNow said: I am sorry that this is the case and I agree. It's terrible, but my wife and sons also paid dearly for destructive things they did not do, deserve or play any part in unleashing. Perhaps even worse than if I caused it, the debt was created by an injustices done to me. Nonetheless, they inherited it. Awful on all counts. On these forums, I always accept fellow Scouters as trustworthy until shown to be otherwise. So in that vein, you have paid a terrible price for something forced upon you. For that, I have sympathy. You family will have suffered from your scars. That is not fair. Unfortunately, there is no real fairness. To me, fairness would be to see all the perpetrators in prison for their crime, some monetary compensation for their pain and suffering from the perpetrators and enablers (which could be the BSA), and counseling that helps them to put this into the past. The fair thing to current Scouts is to not damage the program and camps. Unfortunately, there is not enough liquidity in all Scouting to satisfy both needs. The entire situation is sad. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattR Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 2 hours ago, 5thGenTexan said: I know its a long shot, but I would like for it all to hang on till Nov or Dec. I would like to get my current Webelos Den through Arrow of Light. Why not buy all the patches and pins now and keep chugging? Irrespective of what happens have the B&G and make it fun. The scouts don't care about all of this. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitiveScouter Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 3 minutes ago, MattR said: Why not buy all the patches and pins now and keep chugging? Irrespective of what happens have the B&G and make it fun. The scouts don't care about all of this. No one ever checked BSA's ScoutNet record to see if someone had his Arrow of Light, except for registrars validating Eagle Scout Applications to verify program eligibility. Concur, buy the stuff, do the program, have a blast, celebrate the achievement, and give 'em the bling! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David CO Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, ThenNow said: I went to sleep thinking about this last night and don't sleep much as it is. I lose a lot of sleep too, both literally and figuratively. I often look back on my teaching, coaching and scouting careers and wonder if I did the right things. I thought I did. But I wonder. There was little expectation of privacy in scouting during the post-WWII years. This carried on through most of the 80's. Did this contribute to the problem? I don't know. I would like to think it didn't. But I don't know. When I meet my final accounting, I hope that I don't learn that any of my actions and decisions, or inactions and indecisions, contributed, directly or indirectly, to any instance of child sexual abuse. Edited March 14, 2021 by David CO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThenNow Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 12 minutes ago, David CO said: When I meet my final accounting, I hope that I don't learn that any of my actions and decisions, or inactions and indecisions, contributed, directly or indirectly, to any instance of child sexual abuse. Oh, gosh. I hope the book doesn't contain all prospects for unintended omissions and/or commissions. If I get there, the unfortunate soul behind me better have fetched along a book, some whittling, lunch and coffee. At least. Maybe a sleeping bag. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David CO Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 1 hour ago, ThenNow said: Oh, gosh. I hope the book doesn't contain all prospects for unintended omissions I am old-time Catholic. I still believe in sins of omission. I don't worry much about holding up the line. Purgatory has a very large waiting room. My fear is that it has Musak. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThenNow Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 1 hour ago, David CO said: I still believe in sins of omission. Sure, but not ignorance without malice or negligence. Hm. I believe there’s a “choose one” menu. It includes a loop of the most sleep-inducing homily you EVER heard complete with a poke in the ribs every time you start to nod, a never ending stint in the closet with the incense censer going full blast, serving 6:15 mass in continual successive rotation or replaying the time you spoke way to loud in the confessional only to discover your classmates overheard every sin you confessed that week. Okay. I’ll stop, but you started it... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David CO Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 16 minutes ago, ThenNow said: Okay. I’ll stop, but you started it... It's Sunday. Hardly anyone comes on the forum on Sunday. The moderators aren't around to prod us into getting back on topic. Feel free to bloviate. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThenNow Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 (edited) 16 minutes ago, David CO said: Feel free to bloviate. I just sent that to my family and told them they have to make their selection now. My baby sister wants to see the daily special or hazard the chef’s choice. Edited March 14, 2021 by ThenNow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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