Chapter 11 announced

[RememberSchiff]

Tomorrow 5/29/2020 Judge Silverstein is schedule to rule on the retention and employment of Sidley Austin LLP as attorneys for BSA.

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/821162_699.pdf

[walk in the woods]

13 hours ago, skeptic said:

Of course, this whole thing is beyond the pale anyway, as the fact is, that there is no absolute way to keep warped personalities out of the program, no matter how many barriers are put in place.  And the fact that the percentage of vases, compared to overall membership numbers, is lower than all, or almost all other similar groups makes the situation even more bazaar.  I continue to wonder how taking societal issues from another era into the current one and rendering judgement is in any way rational or justified.

As I and others have stated multiple times, this is not now, nor has it ever been, about compensating victims.  The BSA has been identified by the postmodern deconstructionist as a target to be destroyed due to perpetuating a male-dominated power structure.  Once so identified, no amount of change will satisfy because historical grievances will always outweigh.  The BSA also runs afoul of the postmodernist by using such outdated ideas as a Scout Law (Trustworthy and Loyal are just a social construct built by the powerful) and Scout Oath (Duty is only due to oneself).  Other organizations get a pass because they adapted to the My Personal Truth narrative voluntarily at first pushback.

[Eagledad]

26 minutes ago, walk in the woods said:

As I and others have stated multiple times, this is not now, nor has it ever been, about compensating victims.  The BSA has been identified by the postmodern deconstructionist as a target to be destroyed due to perpetuating a male-dominated power structure.  Once so identified, no amount of change will satisfy because historical grievances will always outweigh.  The BSA also runs afoul of the postmodernist by using such outdated ideas as a Scout Law (Trustworthy and Loyal are just a social construct built by the powerful) and Scout Oath (Duty is only due to oneself).  Other organizations get a pass because they adapted to the My Personal Truth narrative voluntarily at first pushback.

In 1993, I was introduced by a friend to her friend, the regional gay activist. In a brief discussion about the BSA, he said they were taking down the organization because of it's moral ideals that are contrary to the modern culture. I thought the guy was nuts at the time. Now, I understand. 

I feel sorry for the future families who will miss out on the scouting program that my dad, my sons and I got to experience. While is was a values program, it didn't have any foothold in the political nature. Activism has changed that. I'm feeling especially sorry for the more liberal families that would enjoy even today's program because I can see that Scouting is becoming more projected as a conservative program. In this political climate, I'm am not sure that scouting can ever appeal as a non political program ever again.

Barry

[HashTagScouts]

I accessed the forums on Scoutbook this morning, looking for any tip on editing a feature.  First time in probably two years since I had accessed those forums, and the first before they made the forum more than just about SB itself... OH. MY. LORD. The threads going on and on about how unfair it is that camping in the backyard doesn't count for Camping MB.  How unjust it is that some of these kids will miss out on "getting Eagle" (one of the absolute worst phrases that makes me want to slap someone when I hear it- Eagle is not supposed to be 'got', it is supposed to be earned).  

 

[MikeS72]

23 minutes ago, HashTagScouts said:

(one of the absolute worst phrases that makes me want to slap someone when I hear it- Eagle is not supposed to be 'got', it is supposed to be earned).  

The only Eagle related phrase I dislike more than 'getting Eagle" is when people refer to it as they 'Eagled Out".  I would hope that many (most really) Eagle Scouts who have not yet reached their 18th might choose to stay in their units and give back to those younger scouts who will benefit from their experience guidance.  I even winch at the phrase 'he aged out'.  He (or she, soon) may transition from scout to adult; nothing in the program says you reach your a 18th birthday and are suddenly 'out' of scouting.

[desertrat77]

The delusion that scouting "works" in the living room and backyard is spreading.  It was there pre-virus, but it has been fueled by the hype of councils and national--X badges earned, Y number of clicks on a website, Z people sleeping in the backyard.  Sadly, I think this high-tech, lame version of scouting is here to stay.

Think of the stories that scouts brag about it.  It's not about the easy stuff.  It was that day when it 100F, they ran out of water, got lost, the bear took most of their food so the crew shared one Cliff bar, etc.  Who brags about backyard camping?  Nobody.  Because it really isn't adventure.

Backyard camping isn't camping.  At least not for humans above the rank of Bobcat.  If scouts can go back and forth into the house to get a forgotten spatula or replace the batteries in their flashlight, it's not adventure and shouldn't count for anything but training.

Edited May 28, 2020 by desertrat77

[Eagledad]

1 hour ago, MikeS72 said:

The only Eagle related phrase I dislike more than 'getting Eagle" is when people refer to it as they 'Eagled Out".  I would hope that many (most really) Eagle Scouts who have not yet reached their 18th might choose to stay in their units and give back to those younger scouts who will benefit from their experience guidance. 

Looking back, our troop was successful on this part and I will give credit to "(Eagle is not supposed to be 'got', it is supposed to be earned)". Our program focused on the scout journey because we learned that each scout's individual vision is each scouts individual vision. And as a result, our program developed a reputation for boy run, fun, and adventure. Our troop averaged a new Eagle every 2.5 month at the average age of 16. That was the result of a fun program of adventure with a focus on Patrol Method, Not a focus on Eagle. The Eagle was just a by product of having fun.

Usually 90% of our older scouts attended summer camp until they aged out. I used summer camp as point because older scouts don't in general like to repeat summer camp over and over. And, I know that "aged out" could suggest not continuing into to adult leadership, but it was a term of bragging for us because 95% of our Eagles were active youth in our troop until age 18.

I think the BSA can try and make a go of it as some kind of outdoors program. But what made scouting a noble program was it's values (character). I don't feel the present management doesn't has the will to include values as even an equal benefit to outdoors, much less as the main objective. I heard the BSA Mission and Vision were recently changed. I will have to check that out. Still, I think there is some debate of what drove the long success of the program, values or adventure. For our program Values drove us to build a program of adventure that all the scouts would not only enjoy participating, but but growing as well.

Barry

Edited May 28, 2020 by Eagledad

[Mrjeff]

In my opinion, I think that you guys are right on the money. Camping is adventure and being able to take care of yourself. Getting Eagle and earning Eagle are two completly opposite. And to just be plain,  it really pisses me off when someone says "Eagle out" or "Age out". I'm 60 years old and I didn't Eagle our or age out.  People who use these phrases should replace them with "Cop Out".

[HashTagScouts]

We did one virtual campout- SM gave in because two kids on the PLC asked as they needed to complete First Class cooking requirements.  Both also needed a couple other requirements (the 3 R's, fitness requirements).  Only two other kids in the troop wanted to participate, but we relented and let them do it.  Halfway through Saturday they ghosted, but those two did film with a cellphone as they were cooking, so SM gave the OK.  One of the others, we have no idea what they did.  The last one, the parent checked off like 5 requirements in SB looking for SM to sign-off, including the compass and GPS.  SM came to me and asked what I thought- I said no way to the last kid.  3 weeks later, those same two original asked about having another virtual campout- I stepped in and asked if they had bothered to reach out to an older Scout to get signed off on the 3 R's? Nope.  Have they even started the 30 day fitness? Nope.  Result- no more virtual campouts for us.    

Edited May 28, 2020 by HashTagScouts

[Jameson76]

4 hours ago, HashTagScouts said:

We did one virtual campout- SM gave in because two kids on the PLC asked as they needed to complete First Class cooking requirements.  Both also needed a couple other requirements (the 3 R's, fitness requirements).  Only two other kids in the troop wanted to participate, but we relented and let them do it.  Halfway through Saturday they ghosted, but those two did film with a cellphone as they were cooking, so SM gave the OK.  One of the others, we have no idea what they did.  The last one, the parent checked off like 5 requirements in SB looking for SM to sign-off, including the compass and GPS.  SM came to me and asked what I thought- I said no way to the last kid.  3 weeks later, those same two original asked about having another virtual campout- I stepped in and asked if they had bothered to reach out to an older Scout to get signed off on the 3 R's? Nope.  Have they even started the 30 day fitness? Nope.  Result- no more virtual campouts for us.    

Our Troop did not even  discuss the idea of a virtual campout.  The concept does not fit our program, and none the Greenbar (we are old school) or Troop leaders would be supportive.

We are doing our own summer camp in July, because Scouting involved Outings - actual outings for the Scouts.

[SSScout]

6 hours ago, desertrat77 said:

Think of the stories that scouts brag about it.  It's not about the easy stuff.  It was that day when it 100F, they ran out of water, got lost, the bear took most of their food so the crew shared one Cliff bar, etc.  Who brags about backyard camping?  Nobody.  Because it really isn't adventure.

 

[BAJ]

7 hours ago, HashTagScouts said:

I accessed the forums on Scoutbook this morning, looking for any tip on editing a feature.  First time in probably two years since I had accessed those forums, and the first before they made the forum more than just about SB itself... OH. MY. LORD. The threads going on and on about how unfair it is that camping in the backyard doesn't count for Camping MB.  How unjust it is that some of these kids will miss out on "getting Eagle" (one of the absolute worst phrases that makes me want to slap someone when I hear it- Eagle is not supposed to be 'got', it is supposed to be earned).  

 

 I have a somewhat less critical reading of many of the posts there than you had (I read less that posters feel it is unjust that some will miss out on the opportunity to earn Eagle and more that there is a lot of frustration and disappointment on the part of leaders — including leaders of female troops — with new scouts where COVID has disrupted their scouting journey very soon after they started to build up engagement and momentum).  That said, if you missed it, I’d recommend the question about Dog Care merit badge asking whether the badge could be earned with a cat.

[HashTagScouts]

2 minutes ago, BAJ said:

 I have a somewhat less critical reading of many of the posts there than you had (I read less that posters feel it is unjust that some will miss out on the opportunity to earn Eagle and more that there is a lot of frustration and disappointment on the part of leaders — including leaders of female troops — with new scouts where COVID has disrupted their scouting journey very soon after they started to build up engagement and momentum).  That said, if you missed it, I’d recommend the question about Dog Care merit badge asking whether the badge could be earned with a cat.

To even use the word unjust is inappropriate- unless they are in only for the Eagle.  I also see flawed logic in the postings regarding camping nights.  When someone starts a post saying their unit is enthusiastic, and camps monthly, you have to do the math.  Assume they started right out the gate 2/1/19.  Say monthly camping March, April, May, summer camp in June or July, and a weekend trip the other month, then weekend trip in September, October, possibly November.  In any event, that means likely 5 weekend trips minimum, plus summer camp = 16 camping nights? Getting 4 more by the end of 2020 is totally out of the question? And, with the extension option already there, I hardly see anything that is not just.  The choice of words, for me, highlights the uber-Eagle problem.  We all are missing on momentum right now, but take it as part of the journey. 

[TAHAWK]

1 hour ago, SSScout said:

 

Deep Creek - my first Scout campout.  SoCal high dessert.  Fall.  Terrific thunder storm.  All but one tent blew away.   Now you're talkin'!   

[David CO]

I think there ought to be a moratorium on scouts complaining about what is fair or just during the pandemic.  100, 000 of our countrymen have died.  40 million are unemployed.  Under these circumstances, whining about advancement seems selfish and un-scout-like.

Edited May 29, 2020 by David CO