Popular Post MattR Posted February 10, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 10, 2020 Rather than hijack @Cburkhardt's thread(s) on restructuring councils I'm starting a new thread. Between those threads and my recent trip to Rwanda visiting a kid my wife and I sponsor, it just seems to me that the BSA has bigger problems than how to deal with scout shops and the annual membership fee to national. Kids in Rwanda don't need scouts so much as they need a full meal every day. The organization that connected my wife and I to the kid we sponsor are focused on these poor kids. They constantly ask: what do we need to do to help these kids? The BSA, on the other hand, is not asking what do the vast majority of kids in the US need? They're asking how do we get more kids in scouts? Essentially, they've got a hammer and they're looking for nails - and communities have shifted to wood screws. The kids that could really use scouts aren't in it. When we compare the cost of scouts to elite sports teams we exclude all those kids that can't afford elite sports teams. In the meantime I saw estimates of 20 million kids that are waiting to enter an after school program. The BSA model is expensive in both money and parental time, neither of which a broad section of our society has. If the aim is to help kids grow then those 20 million kids are low hanging fruit compared to the 2 million currently in the BSA. The problem is those kids don't have money. While there has been some attempts at including these kids, like Scoutreach, they gave up. (Go to scouting.org and search on scoutreach and it's a ghost.) They likely gave up because they wanted to keep the same scout model of parents running programs in the evening. Why the evening and why parents? After school and with retired adults along with high school and college students sounds much more appealing. Rather than the goal be eagle, how about helping run a unit at a local middle school? Certainly money is an issue. Donations have dropped off. Some people blame it on membership rules. Maybe it's also because, being an elite youth organization, donors don't see it as helping the kids that need help. We've all noticed that CO's typically don't participate in units, either monetarily or in decisions. They provide a place to meet and that's about it. If, instead, scouting was directed at the kids that these CO's are more interested in, is it possible donations would start going up and participation would increase? Churches? Schools? United Way? What kids are they interested in helping? I don't know what the answer is, I just see a problem. Or maybe I'm just ready to move on. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuctTape Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 I think your recognition of the low hanging fruit is spot on. Scouting doesn't have to be expensive at all. Very little in donations is needed, those would supplement but the scouts could do things to earn their own way for a campout. At its core, Scouting has little $ cost. We (BSA) has taken the easy, yet expensive approach. To buy high end tents for a troop is expensive. It is cheaper for scouts to make their own. Boys Life used to have plans for all kinds of camping gear to make. As did the Fieldbook. A new patrol comprised of scouts gathered from the "low hanging fruit" mentored by a Scouter with vision can help deliver a high quality scouting program at very little cost. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yknot Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 MattR if I could upvote your assessment ten times I would. It's exactly the problem. BSA has become a business and stopped being a service organization and that is where the problem lies. Most of the discussion has focused on trying to fine tune the existing, business oriented model. I think it's long past time to break some china and put out the paper plates. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeS72 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 28 minutes ago, MattR said: While there has been some attempts at including these kids, like Scoutreach, they gave up. (Go to scouting.org and search on scoutreach and it's a ghost.) We are one of 2 districts in our council that still has a Scoutreach program. We currently have 15 Scoutreach units, most of which are in schools with a high 'at risk' population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walk in the woods Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 39 minutes ago, MattR said: Why the evening and why parents? After school and with retired adults along with high school and college students sounds much more appealing. Isn't this the lane occupied by Boys and Girls Clubs of America? Not that Scouting couldn't compete I supposed but barriers to entry seem high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattR Posted February 10, 2020 Author Share Posted February 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, MikeS72 said: We are one of 2 districts in our council that still has a Scoutreach program. We currently have 15 Scoutreach units, most of which are in schools with a high 'at risk' population. I think that's great and I wish it were the rule rather than an exception. It doesn't appear that anyone is promoting it. I looked for scoutreach websites and found something on the "wayback machine" (an archive of old web pages). 17 minutes ago, walk in the woods said: Isn't this the lane occupied by Boys and Girls Clubs of America? Not that Scouting couldn't compete I supposed but barriers to entry seem high. I'm not real familiar with Boys and Girls Clubs, so I looked around. In my county (which is also my district) there are 3000 youth in B&G clubs while there are 1000 scouts. B&G clubs do have leadership opportunities for 11-13 year olds and 14-18. I don't know much more than that and there certainly is some overlap. Outdoors and adventure, not so much. As for barriers to entry, the challenge seems to be the same as the BSA - finding adult-ish help and donations. I'd be up for helping these kids do scouty things once a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAHAWK Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 4 hours ago, DuctTape said: I think your recognition of the low hanging fruit is spot on. Scouting doesn't have to be expensive at all. Very little in donations is needed, those would supplement but the scouts could do things to earn their own way for a campout. At its core, Scouting has little $ cost. We (BSA) has taken the easy, yet expensive approach. To buy high end tents for a troop is expensive. It is cheaper for scouts to make their own. Boys Life used to have plans for all kinds of camping gear to make. As did the Fieldbook. A new patrol comprised of scouts gathered from the "low hanging fruit" mentored by a Scouter with vision can help deliver a high quality scouting program at very little cost. Most of the expense in BSA - at least in our council - is salaries, wages, and benefits - over 90% of council income. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuctTape Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 23 minutes ago, TAHAWK said: Most of the expense in BSA - at least in our council - is salaries, wages, and benefits - over 90% of council income. True. I was responding the the idea that scouting is expensive for the scouts, and troops. I apologize for not being more clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle1993 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Boys and Girls club receives significant federal funding (at one point $600M+ per year) and big grants from various corporations. They pay their CEO nearly $1M per year. https://www.forbes.com/companies/boys-girls-clubs-of-america/ They dominate inner city programs and I don’t see the BSA with the funding to compete. It’s sad as I do think the BSA has a great program. I’ve seen the Boys and Girls club camps in my area ... they are impressive and well funded when compared to BSA. I think we need new BSA national leaders who are able to mobilize youth, parents and organizations in a belief that the methods and aims are needed in today’s generation. I believe they are, but the message is being drowned out by STEM and abuse cases. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 BSA up and got itself pegged as faith based, so it does not have access to the federal $ that B&G clubs do. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walk in the woods Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 12 hours ago, Eagle1993 said: They pay their CEO nearly $1M per year. If he's pulling in $650M in taxpayer money and another $1.2B in donations then $1M/year salary is a bargain! That's a pretty good ROI. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParkMan Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 38 minutes ago, walk in the woods said: If he's pulling in $650M in taxpayer money and another $1.2B in donations then $1M/year salary is a bargain! That's a pretty good ROI. ^ This ^ For all our griping about executive salaries, this is the key point. If the CSE could end the lawsuits, could turn membership around, could grow funding, clean up trouble councils, they'd be worth 1 or 2 million a year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkurtenbach Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 On 2/10/2020 at 12:44 PM, DuctTape said: Scouting doesn't have to be expensive at all. Very little in donations is needed, those would supplement but the scouts could do things to earn their own way for a campout. At its core, Scouting has little $ cost. Even just looking the "business model" for Scouting at the unit level, the prevailing methods for pack and troop operations are expensive: uniforms and handbooks for everyone, summer camps, rental of campgrounds and event areas, awards (pins, badges, loops), modern tents and other personal and unit camping equipment, merit badge clinics, shiny metal pinewood derby tracks with electronic timing devices, etc. It's not that it is deliberate, it is just that they are doing Scouting the way everybody does it. It's what they see in Boys' Life and Scouting magazines and at camporees, and what they talk about at Roundtable. No one really thinks about other, inexpensive options because they aren't exposed to those options. They don't know that you can do great Scouting on the cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 (edited) 19 hours ago, dkurtenbach said: ... They don't know that you can do great Scouting on the cheap. And this is where scouting must catch up with the locally sourced attitude of the 21st century. A guy in my hometown makes custom backpacks ... for profit! I bet he'd gladly have a troop visit and learn to assemble their gear. I bet he's not the only one. No offense to the hardworking Vietnamese laborers who assembled our USA Contingent packs for Osprey, but there is something to be said for "patrol built, patrol carried." Metalwork, welding, textile, and backpacking in one fell swoop. Edited February 12, 2020 by qwazse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuctTape Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 Somewhere along the way I learned the word "thrifty". Now where was that again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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