Schools & Religious Principle

[T2Eagle]

5 hours ago, David CO said:

That not the way things work in the States.  We have a winner-take-all sort of system.  It permeates both our politics and our social activities.  If you don't win, you lose.  There is no compromise.

If the atheists win, the religious people lose.  Religion will be banned from scouting, just like prayer was banned from school.  If we don't ban them, they will ban us.  That's the way it is.

Prayer is not banned in schools, prayers led by the government, i.e. the school and its employees, are banned.

To add a little historical perspective, OUR PRAYERS, that is Catholic prayers, were always banned.  No child was allowed to say the Pater Noster or Ave Maria.  Catholic children attending public schools were made to pray in a way that was inconsistent with the teachings of their own faith.  The rise of Catholic parochial schools in the US was largely driven by a fear that attendance at public schools with their compulsory Protestant religious indoctrination would lead to a weakening of the Catholic faith in our children.. 

[walk in the woods]

1 hour ago, T2Eagle said:

To add a little historical perspective, OUR PRAYERS, that is Catholic prayers, were always banned.  No child was allowed to say the Pater Noster or Ave Maria.  Catholic children attending public schools were made to pray in a way that was inconsistent with the teachings of their own faith.  The rise of Catholic parochial schools in the US was largely driven by a fear that attendance at public schools with their compulsory Protestant religious indoctrination would lead to a weakening of the Catholic faith in our children.. 

And still being battled today.  I understand there is a SCOTUS case coming up regarding the Blaine Amendment in the MT Constitution.

[qwazse]

2 hours ago, T2Eagle said:

... No child was allowed to say the Pater Noster or Ave Maria.  ...

In Western PA, we got around that by throwing Hail Mary's and catching Immaculate Receptions. 🤣

[mrkstvns]

3 hours ago, T2Eagle said:

Prayer is not banned in schools, prayers led by the government, i.e. the school and its employees, are banned.

Quite a few prayers will be said on final exam day...

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

To get back to Protoclete's question instead of the usual bickering of theists lying about how atheists can't have morals...

On 1/30/2020 at 12:08 PM, Protoclete said:

I've never had a problem with a public school or an international school before.

You can't legally charter a traditional BSA unit (pack, troop, etc) to a public school in the US; as your initial post points out, that requires the school to exclude atheists, something a public school can't do.

It looks like some international schools in the US are private, and some are attached to a public school system; only the ones that are private would be able to charter a unit.

[Protoclete]

20 hours ago, Merlyn_LeRoy said:

To get back to Protoclete's question instead of the usual bickering of theists lying about how atheists can't have morals...

You can't legally charter a traditional BSA unit (pack, troop, etc) to a public school in the US; as your initial post points out, that requires the school to exclude atheists, something a public school can't do.

It looks like some international schools in the US are private, and some are attached to a public school system; only the ones that are private would be able to charter a unit.

Thanks - but, when did that change? Or is it that the charter is with the PTA instead of the public school per se, and they simply use the space? I've been overseas for over a decade, but it seems like most of the packs we had were at public schools.

[DuctTape]

50 minutes ago, Protoclete said:

Thanks - but, when did that change? Or is it that the charter is with the PTA instead of the public school per se, and they simply use the space? I've been overseas for over a decade, but it seems like most of the packs we had were at public schools.

Yes, the Chartering Org being the PTA makes all the difference. 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

On 2/19/2020 at 5:18 AM, Protoclete said:

Thanks - but, when did that change? Or is it that the charter is with the PTA instead of the public school per se, and they simply use the space? I've been overseas for over a decade, but it seems like most of the packs we had were at public schools.

The main change was back in 2005, when the Illinois ACLU pointed out to the BSA that public schools couldn't legally charter units that excluded atheists.  At the time, roughly 10% of all Packs were chartered by public schools (in Texas, it was 25%) -- this figure does not include PTAs/PTOs or private schools.  PTAs/PTOs can charter units and can meet in public schools on the same basis as other groups.

Edited February 20, 2020 by Merlyn_LeRoy

[SSScout]

On 2/20/2020 at 8:41 AM, Merlyn_LeRoy said:

The main change was back in 2005, when the Illinois ACLU pointed out to the BSA that public schools couldn't legally charter units that excluded atheists.  At the time, roughly 10% of all Packs were chartered by public schools (in Texas, it was 25%) -- this figure does not include PTAs/PTOs or private schools.  PTAs/PTOs can charter units and can meet in public schools on the same basis as other groups.

Well, welcome back Merl.

  I am glad that was sorted out.  Around here, a "Public School" could never charter anything, because each school is not a separate corporate entity. Such a thing would mean the County School Board (which owns the school) would be the Charter Org, and that could never happen.  PTAs and PTOs are always doing such things, and people  end up thinking it is the School that is doing it.   Maybe a Principal might sign such "contracts" as a charter org agreement, but the BoE would pull him in quick when they found out.   Our Council does have several Scout Units chartered to private or religiously based schools, but the numbers are few.  I even know of a Cub Pack chartered by a family owned  Hardware store.