Award

[jsychk]

I have an issue with awarding. 

Our Pack allows the den leaders and parents to enter the scout's adventures into the Scoutbook. I have one Webelos II who will get 19 adventure pins this month. Some of them deem questionable because he can't do the patrol method alone to meet the Scouting Adventure requirement. I have a concern that the dad (who was a Boy Scout) may abuse the honorary system of entering the achievement as a parent. What should I do?

Thanks!

Edited January 6, 2020 by jsychk

[Thunderbird]

While parents can mark items as completed in Scoutbook, it is the Webelos Den Leader who approves adventures and ranks.

4.1.0.3 Who Approves Cub Scout Advancement?

It's not clear from your post, but is this Webelos Scout in a den by himself?  Remember that the standard for Cub Scouts is that they do their best:

4.1.0.4 “Do Your Best”

 

 

[qwazse]

Talk to the dad.

How is this hard?

[TMSM]

2 hours ago, qwazse said:

How is this hard?

Some may see this as confrontation and are uncomfortable about this.

Most of the Scouting Adventure should be done with other den members so maybe he missed that meeting and did his best to do what he could.Maybe you could say "Hey Mr Smith, Can you help me? I see you signed off on makng a patrol flag but Jimmy wasnt in the den meeting when we did this, turns out Tommy wasn't there either so do you have any tips on how to help Tommy get this signed off?

 

[elitts]

3 hours ago, qwazse said:

Talk to the dad.

How is this hard?

Because you never know when you are going to find out that you are talking to Mr. Belligerent.  There are a LOT of really unpleasant parents out there when you throw together the combination of questioning something they want for their kid and telling them they might have been wrong.

I agree that it's the only possible answer, but that's why it's hard.

 

My troop ended up with this with a scout working on his eagle project about a year ago.  The kid was building 2 simple benches, but had a friend of the family who was a builder show up to run the project for him.  Pretty much his sole activity during the project was taking new kids that showed up and introducing him to the builder so that they knew who was telling them what to do.

The instant the question was raised about exactly how he showed leadership when he was standing on the side the entire time, Mr. Belligerent(step-father) stepped right in to tell everyone how they WOULD sign off on everything else required for Eagle or he would take any step necessary up to and including filing a lawsuit.

It was messy.  Fortunately, as soon as he was awarded his Eagle, he was done so we didn't have to put up with the family any further.

Edited January 6, 2020 by elitts

[Thunderbird]

@jsychk  Are you the Advancement Chair?  If so, then I would let the Webelos Den Leader handle it.  It is the Webelos Den Leader's responsibility to approve (or not approve) adventures and rank advancements.

Not sure what this Scout's circumstances are, but there are ways for him to complete the Scouting Adventure even if he misses some of the den meetings or if he is in a den by himself.

[qwazse]

1 hour ago, elitts said:

Because you never know when you are going to find out that you are talking to Mr. Belligerent.  There are a LOT of really unpleasant parents out there ...

I've met one or two Belligerents (okay, a few more than that). However, at the cub level, for everyone of those there are at two or three who are really engaging in the program with their scout. They just haven't figured out how to infect the entire den with their enthusiasm.

Now, I suspect that @jsychk is assuming the worst because of some prior encounters with the dad. But, so what? The program doesn't get any better if you don't talk to him. If that dad was a scout, the odds of him becoming a unit leader are high. That means that if he isn't even questioned about when the scout tried to experience the patrol method now, it will reinforce the notion that his boy can do scouting on his terms, not the troop's. And hitting that wall that hard is truly divisive and an unpleasant experience for all involved.

@TMSM's specific suggestions are very good ice-breakers.

[jsychk]

I discovered something! 

On the Advancement page of  Scoutbook,  there are 3 tabs (top) for years: 2010, 2015, 2016-20. What are these years for? 

For my kids, if I press 2015, they completed 98% but if I press 2016-20, they completed 91%...

I wonder if the dad changed the selection of the year so he just checked all the adventures again?!?!?! Now, I can't view his year selection because his son has completed the AOL. When I got his 19 adventure pins, some of them looked familiar.  But still, no way he can do the patrol method on their own.

Although the dad said he set up 2 troops when he was a Boy Scout in the 90s but he has not taken the leadership role for the last 5 years. The parents of the den are not happy about him because when we had den meetings, we invited his son to complete adventures together. However, when he did over 10 adventures with his son, he had not invited us once.  Our den leader is burned out (after 4 years) and quits this year. We haven't had a den meeting for half year. The parents (i.e. moms) in our den are basically crippling to the finish line next month!!! 

Yes, I am the Advancement Chair. Yes, I don't want confrontation because that dad is 3 times bigger than me. 

Thanks!

 

 

Edited January 6, 2020 by jsychk

[Thunderbird]

1 hour ago, jsychk said:

On the Advancement page of  Scoutbook,  there are 3 tabs (top) for years: 2010, 2015, 2016-20. What are these years for? 

Those year tabs represent different version years of an adventure or rank.  But all Cub Scouts should be working on the most current version of the adventure / rank.

[jsychk]

Thank you!

I was wrong. It's not because of the year tab. I really think the dad was lying because I talked to him at the pack meeting tonight. I think he wants to get all the elective pins for his son so he casually went through them, checked the boxes & called it good.

For example, for the scouting adventure, it requires a troop meeting AND troop outdoor activity/camp out. He & his son attended one day of the campout (they didn't camp). That only counted for the troop outdoor activity but not a troop meeting. Then, he said he did the troop meeting before the break. I asked him which day & which troop so I can verify with the troop. He said the same troop we went to the Invitational together.

My oldest son goes to this troop & I take him to the weekly meeting every time. I didn't see him. Then, he said "never mind, we will do it tomorrow!"...but HE HAS CHECKED THE SCOUTING ADVENTURE AS COMPLETED last week. Then, I asked him how did his son do the patrol (pick a patrol name, elect a leader). He said he did it at the campout. No! I was there. They didn't pick the patrol name or elect a leader via the voting process. But again, he checked it as completed.

He said some of the adventures were completed last year (but the date stamp was a week or 2 weeks ago). For example, he said the BSA swim test was done during the summer, the date stamp should reflect that, right? However, that BSA swim test was checked last Saturday by him. He kept saying he didn't mark anything so he doesn't understand why several adventures showed up as completed. However, his login name is all over with a date stamp from the last 2 weeks.

When I told him that the patrol needs to be done within our den, he had the gut to complain "we don't have a den meeting this year."  At least one parent (from each family) in our den have done SOMETHING to contribute to the Pack this year, except him. He was a boy scout before, shouldn't he know better how to go about? 

Edited January 7, 2020 by jsychk

[qwazse]

To answer your last question first. Plenty of Boy Scouts have no clue about Cub advancement ... especially this version of requirements.

It's clear this guy wants to cut corners. The CC should have a sit-down with him. Because the goal is to get the scout engaged with the program as much as possible. Rubber stamping is no way to do that.

Edited January 7, 2020 by qwazse

[TMSM]

56 minutes ago, jsychk said:

He was a boy scout before, shouldn't he know better how to go about? 

Not really, they changed up the activity pins 4 or 5 years ago. 

I am not sure what you are trying to accomplish with this dad. Sounds like he didnt step up and be a scouter to all of the kids in the den but not sure if expectations were set in the begining of the year or after the den leader quit. Now he wants to has his son earn every pin and is not being accurate in siging off on some of the requirements. 

 

My advice is to send an email to all parents asking to recheck all requirements signed off are accurate - a scout is trustworthy. Then move on. Its not worth the heartburn and Cub Scouts is pretty much over.

 

 

[jsychk]

qwazse: what I mean of "he knows better how to go about" is...everyone needs to chip in and does a little to bring a quality program for the boys. He was a Boy Scout, definitely has more knowledge about scouting than this mom who knew nothing about scouting to begin with. The dad is also working on his Ph.D. so I think his ability to process English is way better than me when it comes to understand the requirements. 

Our new CC is just sent to Middle East. Our CM is extremely busy with his district attorney job. He always told us that he hadn't slept for days to prepare documents for the court. Our treasurer/assistant cub master/trainer is the only man (a 70-something year old veteran) who is holding down the fort. He's the one who had everyone completed the training (trainer job) & filed for the recharter (CC job) last month. As I will move on next month, he said he will take over my AC position too....but I also cover some of the CM responsibilities. His grandson is a Webelos I so I hope more parents will step up soon.

Actually, one dad does step up to be the Wolf den assistant. He brings good energy to the Pack. The mom couple are great, too. They always try to help. They are the only two people who step up to be the committee members. 

TMSM: Besides the Scouting Adventure, he also crossed out 3 adventures that now he said they didn't complete but doesn't know why it's on my advancement report (because they are signed off by him on Scoutbook, with his login & date).  Basically, if I didn't press him on last night, his son would get the pins just because his dad checked the boxes. 

 

Edited January 7, 2020 by jsychk

[DuctTape]

It sounds like the pack does not have active dens, apart from pack meetings. Am I missing something?

 

[ParkMan]

HI @jsychk

I'd recommend that someone just have an honest conversation with the guy - sort of like what you've done here. 

"Hi Bob, It's been great having your son in the pack.  He's an awesome kid.  I noticed that you put him in for 17 adventure badges last month.  As you can imagine that many badges all at once was unusual and raised the question of if he really earned them.  If he did, no problem - but you can imagine how this seems like something we should check on.  What do you think?"

Then let the guy explain.  If he's sticking to his story - then move on.  Part of the risk you take with letting parents enter awards is that this happens.  It's not worth blowing things up over some Webelos adventure loops.  Of course, if others start doing the same, then you've got to rethink the practice of parents entering them.

 

For what it's worth.  I get the impression that people are a little too busy in your pack and it would probably benefit to bring in some more parent help.  CC in the Middle East, CM with demanding job.  Truthfully it doesn't matter if these people have 0 assistants or 10 assistants as long as stuff gets done.  Conversely, it's fine for the person in the role to be busy - but you've got to offload smaller tasks for them.  The CC is responsible for making sure that recharter gets done, but doesn't have to do it themself.  Same with many CM tasks.  These senior people absolutely have to provide the leadership - but the manpower can be done by others.