Parents at PLC Planning Meetings

[Rooster7]

Reading over the last four posts, perhaps I have no argument here with anyone on this subject. It seems like everyone is taking a reasonable approach. This subject can be a sore point with me, because I feel we (any leader involved in youth activities) have the power to make family relationships stronger. When I sniff out anything that sounds as if its counterintuitive to that process, it disturbs me. Parental participation and boy-run are not mutually exclusive concepts. Though, I agree that there may be times when the leader needs to step in to preserve the boy-run program (as KS noted). Still, just I as I appreciate a boy who can put forth and develop a idea into a planI also enjoy the camaraderie of fathers and sons, and the passing of wisdom from one generation to the next. We can do a lot to make that happen or we can drive a wedge between them.

[Eagledad]

>>I also enjoy the camaraderie of fathers and sons, and the passing of wisdom from one generation to the next.

[mk9750]

I read these messages for exactly this kind of discussion. And I hold many of the folks who have contributed to this one in VERY high regard. Thanks for participating, all!

 

One day about a year ago, frustrated with a couple of adults who couldn't keep from inserting themselves into the process of a PLC when it started getting bogged down and threatened to run late a few times (which would have caused the adults undue hardship by having to stay 15 minutes later instead of getting home to watch Will and Grace), I herded all the adults in the room away and aske them a question. "Close your eyes, and imagine your sons in their PLC without ANY adults in the room. Not me, not you, not the Scoutmaster, no one but Scouts. What do you think would be the outcome of such a meeting?"

 

The Scoutmaster picked up exactly what I was doing. The common thought was that chaos would reign, nothing would get done, and the youngest Patrol Leaders might be found hanging on the flag pole if there were no adults to supervise. We made them a deal. Next month, the SM, and all of the other adults would suddenly have developed a need to have an adult meeting, leaving the boys to run their own meeting by themselves. When the SM got the meeting minutes from the Scribe, we wold publish them to the adults. We'd let the parents decide for themselves which way the meeting was more productive.

 

Even the Scoutmaster was suprised. I think he felt he was vital to the process. Turns out, the Patrol leaders must have determined they were responsible to each other for the success of the meeting, and to the unsuing program in the next month and a half. And this seemed to motivate them. Things went famously!

 

We backslide a bit, and the adults get involved a little more every month, until someone makes the point again. And it's not always "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" when the boys are on their own. But my experience is that leaving boys to their own devices produces better results than doing otherwise.

 

Mark

[nldscout]

The best thing is tell parents and committee members they cannot be at PLC meetings. There is nothing in BSA rules that says you cannot prohibit them. You set a rule and if they do noyt want thier son to attend without them then you explain it and if they still won't then I guess its time to elect new leaders

[ozemu]

A few variables to consider:

 

age of the PL's

the amount of Scouting experience they have

the number of PL's

how they interact

their level of expertise in running meetings

any need to use parents for expertise / mentoring

any need to use SM's for same

how often you have PLC's

 

any of these may suggest that parents be involved or not.

 

It is not a common practice in this Troop but sometimes it is done.

 

 

 

[Bob White]

The PLC is designed to have one adult present, the Scoutmaster, and his/her role is to help keep the group on task.

 

This is the SPL's meeting for his leadership team, and no one else, unless they are invited there by the SPL for a special report or presentation.

[EagleInKY]

I agree Bob. I also like for the ASMs to be there, when possible. That way they have a better idea of what is going on. They are not there to participate as much as they are to understand the plans in greater detail. Our ASMs travel a lot, so their attendance is sporadic. The more they can be exposed to the PLC and how they plan things, the better.

[Bob White]

The more adults present the less likely the scouts will be able to make their own decisions. The Scoutmaster is responsible for keeping his/her assistants informed, just as the Patrol Leaders are responsible for keeping their assistants informed. This is the boys' meeting. Only one adult should be there, the scoutmaster.

[boleta]

All meetings in BSA are supposed to be open to parents who wish to observe.

 

I agree with Bob White about the principle of the PLC. It is frustrating for the ASM who wants to give his 2 cents, but that is not the purpose of this meeting.

 

How do you reconcile the open meeting "rule"?(This message has been edited by boleta)

[Bob White]

Parents may sit quietly outside the room and listen to the meeting. but remain unseen and unheard.

[EagleInKY]

The open meeting rule, as I understand it, is to prevent unscoutlike behavior such as secret societies, hazing and the like. If a parent feels that something inappropriate is happening at a PLC (the SPL is picking on her son, the PL uses bad language, the SM is really running the show, etc.), then they have a legitimate right to attend the meeting. However, that does not mean they have the right to PARTICIPATE in the meeting. If a parent has a concern, invite them to sit in the corner and observe the meeting. Once their concerns are alleviated, they should not return.

 

To clarify my comment about ASMs, I should note that we are a small troop. Currently, we have only two ASMs. Most PLC meetings take place without them. I still see some value in their attendance, in that they get a better understanding of how the program is run by the boys. Like the parents mentioned above, they aren't there to participate, but to observe. Although I wouldn't question an ASM that spoke up when they had value to add to the meeting.

[Rooster7]

Parents may sit quietly outside the room and listen to the meeting. but remain unseen and unheard.

 

Being that it is the boys meeting, dont they have a say in this matter? What if they saw wisdom in inviting some parents as SMEs and wanted to discuss their options with them? My point is, you stated the above as if its carved in stone. It seems to me that there may be opportunities for parents to share.

 

[EagleInKY]

Valid point Rooster. In fact, our PLC is planning a First Aid theme in a couple of months, and are going to invite our resident First Aid counselor in to help with the planning. They plan to do the same with a guy who has experience planning Whitewater trips. I believe my job is to make sure these adults understand their role (as an SME, not the actual planner) before they step foot into the meeting. Otherwise, the meeting could spin out of control.

[Bob White]

I do believe I posted that other adults may attend at the invitation of the SPL did I not?

 

The make up and operation of the PLC is a part of the Patrol and Leadership methods of scouting. It is a tool applied by the Scoutmaster to help reach the aims of scouting. It is not for the scouts or for the parents to dictatte or determine what the methods are or how to use them that is a program function of the BSA. Any parent who wishes to learn about these methods and help in their delivery should applay for membership and take the appropriate training.

[nldscout]

"All meetings in BSA are supposed to be open to parents who wish to observe. "

 

If the PLC sets the rule that no adults unless invited by the PLC, Then there is no adults. If a parent insist on being there, let them observe through a window, if they get so insistant that they have to be in the room, the PLC needs to tell the scout to leave the room, its as simple as that. If you let parents observe, you need a