Family Camping focus - Jan/Feb Scouting Magazine

[Navybone]

I think people will read into what they want on the issue, depending on what they see as value in scouting.

There is probably as much on family camping, mainly focused on Cub Scouts aged kids, as not family focused.   Since there are age restrictions on who can go to Philmont, maybe encouraging the younger scouts to go with families is a good thing.  As in not to discourage them when all the older scouts in troop go (as is the impact In my son troop).  And if it not hard to find core scouting articles - there are two articles on snow related adventures   

In reading the posts and the magazine, this newish ASM has to wonder if The family life merit badge is a waste of time and counter to the aims and goals of scouts.  Since it is family and not outdoor or individual accomplishment focused? Because looking at the requirements and the intent of the badge, I don’t see it.   

 

 

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[Eagle94-A1]

My concerns with "Family Camping" or 'Family Scouting" is based upon what I saw first hand happen too many times over the years. But most significatly with my last troop that was turning every camp out and activity into a family camp out. The parents, two of which were "trained'" constantly kept interfering,  would not let the PLs and SPL do their jobs, constantly allowing their sons to sneak out of the tents and/or shelters ( essentially abandoning their  tentmate/buddy) and sleep with them, ad nauseum. When counseled and mentored on the problems they were causing, they ignored the SM and ASMs trying to work with them. Finally when corrected, they give ultimatums about leaving, which leaves the troop in a lurch at some activities, or leave altogether. Morale was getting lower and lower among the Scouts, as well as the experienced Scouters. My family left as the older two and I had enough, and I was not about to put the youngest through the hot mess that was the troop. The only thing that saved the troop was the COR getting involved and stating only trained SM and ASMs will be going on trips from now on and not families. COR was a little hesitant to get involved, but knew somehting had to be done to fix the problem or more Scouts and Scouters would have transferred.

So I am not "Get over your attitudes ." As others have stated, Scouting is a YOUTH DEVELOPMENT ( emphasis, not shouting) program, and not a family program. Cub Scouts I don't have a problem with family camping, Heck my wife and I enjoyed it. But Scouts BSA, Sea Scouts, and Venturing is pure youth development, and parents and siblings tend to be a hindrance in that.

[Eagledad]

2 hours ago, Oldscout448 said:

" Get over your attitudes" ?    Exactly when did you got promoted to forum parent?   I must have missed the memo/ meeting.   

Ive noticed it’s the same crowd who use name calling as their argument in some of the discussions on the forum. I hope they are young because they are certainly immature. Next thing we’ll be hearing “familyphob” being thrown around.

Barry

[desertrat77]

@skeptic, you mentioned the PTC.  While I'm against the big family camping push, the PTC is one place where it works.  Mom/Dad take courses and the kiddos are engaged in age-appropriate outdoor activities with qualified staff all day.  At night, everyone has dinner and then it's family time.

But outside the PTC?  A big "no" from me.  The BSA is already suffering from watered-down programming, adult-led everything, and restrictions on many outdoor activities that used to be the norm as well as huge recruiting draws.

 

Edited December 22, 2019 by desertrat77

[skeptic]

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Oldscout448 said:

@skeptic now that I've had a few moments to think,  I apologize if I came off as kind of snarky. I realize and you are trying to do what you think is best for scouting, it's just that what you seem to see as scouting and what I see as scouting are two entirely different animals called by the same name. 

And I must admit that I have an emotional response when I'm told to " check your privilege,  get over yourself,  stop speaking as a member of your class, etc. Mostly by the twentyish crowd when they cannot find a way to counter my points during a discussion. 

Again my apologies, Oldscout

And I may have been a bit harsh as well.  What I meant to try and say is that we need to all temper our selves at times, especially our knee jerk, rush to judgment.  I see the proposed program as positive, as noted already.  But it too needs to be monitored and tweaked to work for the specific group.  And, part of that monitoring is keeping the youth in the leadership at the Scout level and above.  The Philmont program appears to basically be an extension of what has been offered at PTC for decades, and many youth that participated in those PTC groups went on to become adamant, enthusiastic outdoor people.  Before the changes to two deep, I twice took youth from my unit that could not go on a trek do to various reasons along to my training weeks and they participated in the program.  I had one senior scout in college and an Eagle hired off the trail one summer, and he then returned the following year for the full term on staff.   Not every program will work for every unit.  Some may need a lot of adjustments.  But, to write them off without even trying them, or because we think they are wrong is not the best approach from my perspective.

As far as "younger", I likely have been around longer than most on this forum now, having passed my 3/4 birthday and received my fifty-year pin.    My doctor told me to stop backpacking, but I still do summer camp so far, and an occasion drive-in.  For some reason, after a stroke in 2015 some think I am too old.

[qwazse]

Got a moment to read it at my coffee shop today. Left it there.

The editors buried the lead. The more useful articles for most scouters, IMHO, were about Madcap family and Powderhorn.

I don't grudge BSA selling big tickets to PTC and the extended HA opportunities. But there was more to the mag than that.

[ianwilkins]

Sounds like your magazine is much like our UK one, well, in the reaction it provokes, flicked through by the frontline, eyebrows raised, maybe a tut, or an eyeroll, then put away/recycled. We look on in wonder at the achingly PC troops and packs, with their wonderful diversity and their happiness to do things that just wouldn't work for my lot and me. There's no grit. All is shiny. We had our problems but we overcame. Good for you but I can't even summon the energy to tidy the spare room where there's an ever growing pile of scout detritus. Never see that in the magazine!

Easy to knock down though, harder to build. 

(for info...https://scouts.org.uk/scouting-magazine)

 

 

 

[fred8033]

On 12/21/2019 at 4:26 PM, Jameson76 said:

Rather than focusing on winning youth with the core program, BSA seems to be constantly trying to vary the program, to chase the next shiny thing.  Whether that be STEM (STEAM??), now Family Scouting, and who knows what's next.

BSA is very guilty of chasing the next hot-button idea. 

Edited December 29, 2019 by fred8033

[fred8033]

This is a non-issue to me.  I'm not seeing any significant change.  So PTC has family activities.  Great!  Maybe more scout leaders will get trained. 

Packs have always had parent/child and often family based activities.  Normal Rockwell often painted the family in scouting pictures.  ... It's really nothing new.  .... The issue is really if this continues into the troop ... or if there is an official BSA change.  

IMHO, cut BSA some slack.  We need to recognize that the current new generation of parents (30 year old parents) and their kids have not been outside (camping, hiking, fishing, etc) like previous generations.  This is a big hurdle.  It means BSA has to be the ambassador of outdoor activities and introduce very basic things such as ... out houses, gas stoves, sleeping under-the-stars, etc.   So, I'm just not opposed to references of family camping ... if it introduces the adventures and promise of scouting.

... I always think back ... My mom's family did not have indoor plumbing until she graduated high school and they were in a suburb ... not at all the country.   .... Society has evolved drastically since BSA was created in 1910.  Experience of 100 years ago are now very foreign.  It's fine if BSA tries to be more "friendly" to the family.    And, I just don't see a signficant change. 

It's hard to keep a 100+ year old program relevant.