YPT required one year out to recharter?

[hertfordnc]

I am being made committee chair.  My YPT is good through  Dec  5 2020.  I am being told that our charter cannot go through unless my YPT is good through the end of the charter year

So i have to retake it now

Is this true?  

If so, i will seriously consider walking away.   You cannot abuse volunteers with this sort of bureaucracy.

 

[MikeS72]

This may be a local council thing.  Some councils have everyone retake YPT annually.  National only cares that your YPT is current when your charter is processed, which is why we recommend that anyone who is expiring close to the start of the calendar year (Jan - March) renew now, to avoid any issues should their charter not make it through processing before their YPT expires.

 

[hertfordnc]

I could live with it being an annual requirement.  But it undermines recruiting when you throw surprises at your volunteers without explanation. 

 

[ParkMan]

I understand the desire of councils to make sure that volunteers will be considered trained during the duration of their registration.  Councils have just about zero leverage to get volunteers to take YPT at any time other than registration.

My suggestion - make this a national rule, but also extend YPT certification to last for 27 months.  Councils get what they want, volunteers get what they want.

National needs to look for smart solutions to cases like this- not more arbitrary rules.

Edited December 15, 2019 by ParkMan
expanded the thought

[scotteg83]

Our council has an every year rule.  They want to make sure your YPT does not expire during the full charter season, which yours does.  Meaning if you do not take your YPT on or before December 5, 2020, you should have no contact with youth, period.

 

On a side note, and maybe its the hard time telling tone on posts, but if this is your knee jerk reaction to something like this, you aren't going to be very happy volunteering in Scouting.  Everything comes in last minute, things change with little to no notice.  The unpaid volunteers are always the last to know anything, and have to do all the work to make it happen.

[hertfordnc]

> kneejerk reaction 

I suppose it appears that way, and "tone" is a challenge in written form but there's more to it. 

Having spent four decades in the largest bureaucracy on earth I am used to putting with things i think are stupid.   But  if you build an organization around free labor you have a responsibility to nurture that labor force.  

We spent all of the Fall rebuilding our pack and  raising money. My goal was that no parent would have to  pay more than $30. This is a poor community.  We almost lost the whole pack last year because we were led by higher income people who did not understand the needs of working parents. 

We would have met that goal but BSA doubled the national fee and we did not have cash in the bank.  Still, to meet the goal, we in leadership volunteered to cover the cost for ourselves and our scouts so that all the new parents would not be burdened and we squeeked by with a little in the bank and no hard feelings. 

BSA's failure to prepare  for the increased need and springing it on us weeks before charter shows reckless disregard for the people who do the work. 

This goofy two-year certification that cannot lapse in 23 months is another example of the same reckless disregard.  

And the other layer to my frustration is that I am trying hard to recruit leadership from lower income and minority folks in my community.  We are 30-40% non-white but scouting is as white as the klan for 100 miles in all directions. 

So when i ask a mom who works two jobs that I want her to be a den leader I expect the organization to value her time and mine.

end of rant 

YPT  is rolling in the background because in a dysfunctional bureaucracy, compliance is everything 



 

[Jameson76]

1 hour ago, scotteg83 said:

Our council has an every year rule.  They want to make sure your YPT does not expire during the full charter season, which yours does.  Meaning if you do not take your YPT on or before December 5, 2020, you should have no contact with youth, period.

So...with that type of logic, and in that world, I can be a leader, taking youth on outings and adventures, doing all the Scouty things one does, then...suddenly....on December 6 I will (I guess like Mr Hyde) transform into some sort of raving lunatic endangering youth?

Better solution is for BSA to figure out the calendar foolishness, because either it's good at the time or recharter or it's not.  It is up the the Scouter to be current when the annual recharter rolls around.

Remember...BSA does not exist just to support and promote YPT training, this is just part of the overall program training.  It is part of who we are, not WHY we are.

Edited December 15, 2019 by Jameson76

[ParkMan]

1 hour ago, hertfordnc said:

> kneejerk reaction 

I suppose it appears that way, and "tone" is a challenge in written form but there's more to it. 

Having spent four decades in the largest bureaucracy on earth I am used to putting with things i think are stupid.   But  if you build an organization around free labor you have a responsibility to nurture that labor force.  

We spent all of the Fall rebuilding our pack and  raising money. My goal was that no parent would have to  pay more than $30. This is a poor community.  We almost lost the whole pack last year because we were led by higher income people who did not understand the needs of working parents. 

We would have met that goal but BSA doubled the national fee and we did not have cash in the bank.  Still, to meet the goal, we in leadership volunteered to cover the cost for ourselves and our scouts so that all the new parents would not be burdened and we squeeked by with a little in the bank and no hard feelings. 

BSA's failure to prepare  for the increased need and springing it on us weeks before charter shows reckless disregard for the people who do the work. 

This goofy two-year certification that cannot lapse in 23 months is another example of the same reckless disregard.  

And the other layer to my frustration is that I am trying hard to recruit leadership from lower income and minority folks in my community.  We are 30-40% non-white but scouting is as white as the klan for 100 miles in all directions. 

So when i ask a mom who works two jobs that I want her to be a den leader I expect the organization to value her time and mine.

end of rant 

YPT  is rolling in the background because in a dysfunctional bureaucracy, compliance is everything 



 

Hi @hertfordnc

I hear you! The BSA is a very weird organization.  The arguments you're making and frustrations you're describing are the same as the a great many of us have too.

What I've come to reluctantly understand is that the BSA unit/council/national relationship is pretty strained. 

This YPT business is a great example.  National setup this YPT rule that YPT needs to be current in order to volunteer.  Unit volunteers ignore this constantly.  Council and district volunteers are put in the position of having to deal with that.  So - what is a council volunteer to do?  Ignore it too?

 

[qwazse]

Contact your district executive and, possibly, your council president. Explain that you've done due diligence according to national standards. Explain that your parents are a bit frayed as it is, and so are your leaders as you all have gone out of the way to support them. Assure that any leader on your roster whose training is due this year will take it the month that it is due. And, that no other revisions to training will be submitted at this time.

Worst case they suspend your charter until you comply, but at the very least you stall until you take the training New Year's Day.

[awanatech]

How is it that BSA can emphasize that neither local Councils, units, leaders nor anyone else can add requirements, take away requirements, nor in any other way modify the requirements that the youth are to meet in order to advance, yet all of these Councils are able to require YPT annually when BSA has established it to be valid for 2 years?  Isn't that changing the requirements for our adult leaders beyond what BSA has put in place?

[qwazse]

@awanatech, conflating YP (which is a modification of aldult association) with advancement gets us nowhere.  Better to just say local impositions that are neither important to National nor mandated by the state make it hard for volunteers to do their job well.

[awanatech]

1 hour ago, qwazse said:

@awanatech, conflating YP (which is a modification of aldult association) with advancement gets us nowhere.  Better to just say local impositions that are neither important to National nor mandated by the state make it hard for volunteers to do their job well.

You're right, it doesn't. National already is making it hard enough to try and keep volunteers engaged. It is frustrating though to see that many Councils make it even harder for the unit volunteers to do the work of Scouting that they so enjoy.  We are generally working a full time job & trying to fulfill regular family obligations along with trying to keep up with the ever changing requirements to keep volunteering.  I'm also the one trying to keep other leaders up to date on their 2 year renewal for YPT, along with other training updates. Then to throw in running interference between National raising the fees after we've collected dues, it just really gets tiring trying to keep up and still enjoy Scouting. I can't imagine the grief I'd get from adults if I had to tell them that their YPT was only good for a year, even though their certificate says otherwise.

[ParkMan]

I certainly agree that the mindset is wrong at national and in the council staffs.  It feels to me like they think of units and unit volunteers as entities to managed.  Your YPT percentage isn't 100%, you're not advancing enough, you're not recruiting enough.  I believe it would do the BSA well to adopt much more of a service mentality than a management mentality.

Yet, on this specific YPT issue I can't get too worked up.  I too have chased volunteers to get this done.  It's a royal pain.  The BSA could simplify this immensely by adopting a policy of:

- YPT certification is good for 27 months

- YPT must be current for the entire duration of your registration.  

Done - problem solved.

Regardless - we volunteers complain way too much about YPT.  My goodness, the BSA is on the verge of bankruptcy because prior leaders abused youth.  We're complaining because we might have to take it once a year? That's 90 minutes a year to reinforce the YPT rules.  That's not such a big imposition.

Edited December 16, 2019 by ParkMan
grammer

[walk in the woods]

If National or Councils want confirmation every year the least they could do is just offer a recert test.  Pass the test and move on. No reason to sit through the same two hours of videos year after year after year.

[walk in the woods]

14 hours ago, ParkMan said:

So - what is a council volunteer to do?  Ignore it too?

Nope, enforce it. When rules aren't enforced they are ignored.  Start dropping volunteers and units.  Volunteers will either start complying or units will end.  I doubt National nor the Councils have the courage of their convictions.