BSA Mortgages Philmont Scout Ranch

[Momleader]

2 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

So at a quick glance of OP document, this is rob Philmont to pay Bechtel?   

Ive never made it to Philmont. My husband and kids went twice together and husband went as a scout. We’ve all been to the ‘Summit’ twice. They said they will never go back to WVA. There is absolutely no comparison and it isn’t the ‘summit’ experience you would expect it to be - they felt the Jambos were an exercise in hurry peace and wait. Hubby had been to one at AP Hill. I wasn’t all that impressed with what I saw of the ‘Summit’ either - but I was working 10hr days with 2 half days off in the merit badge area.   Seemed like a giant summer camp week

[le Voyageur]

1 hour ago, SubSM said:

All this talk of drunken sailors... it's like y'all have met some before.

Revenue neutral is the best way to go.

 

Mike

Shore Patrol LPO - Subic

[Jameson76]

Just now, Jackdaws said:

Hmm sounding like a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul then.   Hopefully not though. 

Sadly it has been ongoing for a while.  This really stems from several items

1) The cost for the Summit, this is a huge drain

2) Pension Liabilities that are not fully funded for the professional Scouts

3) General overhead not full contracted for current size of the organization

4) Sub part of the that is the current Council Structure may not be the best to deliver Scouting to the local community

5) General Medical Health Care costs, actually this impacts pretty much every business and organization

6) The liability portion (not abuse cases) that are more prevalent, see above, due to everyone's rise in premiums, a lot of high deductibles, makes more sense to file on BSA insurance for a  sustained injury

7) The abuse case money issue

 

[SubSM]

5 minutes ago, le Voyageur said:

Shore Patrol LPO - Subic

Oh boy. Never been to Subic myself... but I have heard many stories from shipmates. I am glad to see you survived.

Mike

[RememberSchiff]

57 minutes ago, John-in-KC said:

second, my late Dad was a CPA. When he discovered businesses were borrowing for operating funds instead of capital growth, he’d get of any positions he held in them forthwith. 

...and for recharter, National wants to do credit background checks of us?  

Edited November 18, 2019 by RememberSchiff

[desertrat77]

10 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

...and for recharter, National wants to do credit background checks of us?  

...and if our units are struggling financially, National wants us to "sell more popcorn."

 

Edited November 18, 2019 by desertrat77

[Jameson76]

18 minutes ago, desertrat77 said:

...and if our units are struggling financially, National wants us to "sell more popcorn."

 

Remember - whatever the question is, the answer is in fact "sell more popcorn".  Sadly my unit is not part of the solution as we don't hock the corn

[skeptic]

While I am not able to verify, on another forum, "Talk About Scouting", one poster shares this:

"Richard Pennington I am suspicious of this. Seems very unusual that it took place in April and in November it comes out, but only on very odd and little known sites. Plus he posted the article he wrote himself in the PSA group on facebook, almost like a self promotion thing."

So, perhaps someone here can expand on this as well.  I do know that there are people out there that are doing there best to undermine BSA, no matter what.  I was at PTC in June, and the facility was full.  I also am not the expert, but I have been led to believe that the ranch cannot be sold anyway.  It would revert back to the Phillips family.  Of course, that might only apply to the original parts, and it has had a number of additions since.  

 

 

[John-in-KC]

I went to the Colfax County Clerk’s website. There are filings between BSA and JP Morgan Chase in April of this year. 

[prof]

4 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

So at a quick glance of OP document, this is rob Philmont to pay Bechtel?   

Sadly I am reminded of events in the Colonial Virginia Council. They sold Camp Chickahominy and mortgaged their scout office to pay for Bayport Scout Reserve, which was supposed to be a Premier Scout facility. They couldn't make payments on Bayport, so it was foreclosed and they had to move out of their scout office.

[yknot]

Why does this disease that everything has to be bigger, better, blingy-er always infect organizations? Instead of Bechtel, BSA could have done so much more good if it had developed a program to help retain Council level camps and properties on a regional basis. Property management expertise, help in setting up regional joint purchasing agreements to maximize cost efficiencies, marketing help, seed money to help transition some holdings into public ownership rather than being lost to sale and development. We are not scouts if we can't get kids outside. We are losing too many council camp properties. 

[dkurtenbach]

5 minutes ago, yknot said:

Why does this disease that everything has to be bigger, better, blingy-er always infect organizations? 

This is another area where Corporate Scouting (at both the National and Council levels) adversely affects Unit Scouting.  Rather than asking what units actually need to operate a great program 52 weeks a year, the folks running the show ask what they can do that will impress their "stakeholders."  Something they can highlight when giving tours of their facilities or making fundraising pitches.  Something they can attach a donor name to.  But over and over again, we find that "If we build it, they (Scouts) will come" is something that only happens in movies.  And we're left with big debt and/or big ongoing expenses for acquiring, building and/or maintaining something that units don't really need, or is too far away to get much use, or is only seen by Scouts and leaders who don't much care about its architectural beauty.  Yet unit families are asked to pay for them, and units are continually pestered about using those facilities.

[walk in the woods]

3 hours ago, SubSM said:

Oh boy. Never been to Subic myself... but I have heard many stories from shipmates. I am glad to see you survived.

Mike

They're all true.

[DuctTape]

1 hour ago, yknot said:

Why does this disease that everything has to be bigger, better, blingy-er always infect organizations? Instead of Bechtel, BSA could have done so much more good if it had developed a program to help retain Council level camps and properties on a regional basis. Property management expertise, help in setting up regional joint purchasing agreements to maximize cost efficiencies, marketing help, seed money to help transition some holdings into public ownership rather than being lost to sale and development. We are not scouts if we can't get kids outside. We are losing too many council camp properties. 

And I think BP would agree. In "Aids to Scoutmastership" he wrote, "Living under canvas is a very different thing from camping. Any ass, so to speak, can live under canvas where he is one of a herd with everything done for him; but he might as well stop at home for all the good it is likely to do him."

[carebear3895]

1 hour ago, yknot said:

Why does this disease that everything has to be bigger, better, blingy-er always infect organizations? Instead of Bechtel, BSA could have done so much more good if it had developed a program to help retain Council level camps and properties on a regional basis. Property management expertise, help in setting up regional joint purchasing agreements to maximize cost efficiencies, marketing help, seed money to help transition some holdings into public ownership rather than being lost to sale and development. We are not scouts if we can't get kids outside. We are losing too many council camp properties. 

National does not like councils owning a lot of property. Lot of liability. In fact, I see the Summit opening up traditional summer camp weeks a direct assault on local council camps and it's despicable. 

 

The BSA needs to stop shoving the Summit down our throat. It's never going to be a thing. 

Edited November 18, 2019 by carebear3895