Eagle Scout Rank or Award?

[Eamonn]

In a previous thread someone challenged the idea that Eagle Scout is a Rank. They changed the word rank to Award.

I have looked in a number of places and see that it is the: Eagle Scout Rank.

As a rule I normally refer to it as the Eagle Scout Rank.

What are your feelings ?

Eamonn

 

[scoutldr]

Umm, that would have been me. Based on the fact that the little box that the medal comes in has "Eagle Scout Award" on it. You are correct that the Eagle Scout "Rank" is referred to throughout BSA literature...even on the "Application for Eagle Scout Rank". Perhaps the "Award" refers to the medal itself.

 

I don't think it's worth arguing over. Personally, I don't like the term "rank" used in the BSA context. That implies that responsibility and authority are vested in the rank, rather than in the POR. I know many Eagles in troops where the SPL is a Life.

 

The Eagle "rank" should hold a higher place of honor than just the last step of the advancement trail, IMHO. Getting all of the boxes checked should be just the prerequisite for being considered for the "award". Just like the Vigil "Honor" is based on more than whether the candidate has been a Brotherhood for two years.

 

For example, the not so hypothetical scout who has received (earned?) 21 MB, watched his dad build a park bench and wore a Scribe patch for 6 months is too often automatically sent to the BOR and advanced. Oh, that shoplifting conviction or suspended drivers' license? Well, he was just a juvenile and deserves a second chance. His 15 year old girlfriend got an abortion last year? Boys will be boys.

 

Perhaps there should be things that automatically preclude an Eagle Award:

 

Any conviction in a court of law

Being fired for cause from Camp Staff (or any other job)

Any school suspension or expulsion

Becoming an unwed parent

 

As I stated before, society thinks Eagles are the cream of the crop, not only of Scouts, but of all young men. They are expected to be the best of the best...in all aspects of their lives, not just knot-tying and first aid. We have a weighty responsibility not to disappoint. Or are we going to look the other way and keep dumbing down the requirements just to keep our numbers up?

 

Not sure I'm expressing it adequately...maybe I'm just getting old.

[FScouter]

I'd consider the rank to be the schievement earned upon completion of the requirements. The award would be the badge or medal.

[Fat Old Guy]

I've long thought that the term "rank" is inappropriately applied in Boy Scouts. Advancement in rank implies greater authority but that isn't the case in Boy Scouts. However, increases in rank in Boy Scouts does carry greater responsibility.

 

What sort of responsibility? Well, as a Scout progresses through the ranks, he becomes a role model for younger Scouts. That can be quite a responsibility.

 

Scoutldr's point is right on the mark and should be covered by "Scout Spirit." Unfortunately, it seems that many think that Scouts should only behave as Scouts when they are at Scout meetings. The rest of their time they can be monsters.

 

 

[9muckraker7]

Amen, scoutldr. I know several "eagle scouts" who have absolutely no interest in scouting or camping or "setting a good example," and I think that shouldn't be. The requirement of "living the scout oath and law in one's everyday life" should be elaborated a bit, so that only those truly deserving of the rank can get the award.

[Fuzzy Bear]

It was always known as the Eagle Progress Award for as long as I can remember. Some try to ascribe rank to it, meaning that the person has some position of authority over others. It is not an office with specific duties and responsibilities. The Eagles position is one of an example, as one who has achieved many Scouting skills and done so honorably. The award of Eagle is generally thought of as a lifelong achievement. A person that sets the example is one who is not perfect but one who sets his goals high and works towards those goals. A simple challenge for brother Eagles is to note if others have used you as a standard to guide their lives.

 

FB

 

(This message has been edited by Fuzzy Bear)

[boleta]

The answer to the question is historical.

 

The original program in 1910 had First Class as the highest rank. This could be followed by the awards of Life- 5 specific merit badges, Star- 5 additional specific merit badges, and Eagle, 21 of any of the merit badges. The Star and Life awards were rearranged in their order and then Eagle became a rank.

 

[boleta]

Terry Grove wrote a great article on this in Vol. 1 No. 4 Dec. 2001 of the International Scouting Collectors Association Journal.

 

In 1908, Baden-Powell outlined four badges of honour- Signalling, First Aid, Stalking and Merit. The Merit badge was earned for 20 good marks of various good deeds. The badge of "Wolf" was given as a reward of special distinction.

In 1909 B-P revised the system and added 10 additional badges of honour. If a scout earned all 14 badges he was given the highest honor- the "Silver Wolf".

 

In 1910, Seton received permission from B-P to use Scouting for Boys in the Boy Scouts of America - Official Handbook. There were 14 listed badges of Merit and the highest award was the Silver Wolf. When James West became the first Chief Scout Executive on Jan. 1, 1911, he established several committees to advance scouting. One committee adopted B-P's advancement system but added new badges of merit bringing the total to 57. The first handbook was published in August 1911 and the highest award was renamed Eagle.

 

Life, Star and Eagle were considered super badges of merit which could be earned, but not considered rank advancements. Life could be earned by a First Class Scout who passed the tests for badges of merit: Athletics, First Aid, Lifesaving, Personal Health an Public Health. Star could only be earned by earning Life and any additional 5 merit badges. There were no specific MBs for the 21 required for Eagle. A scout could go directly to Eagle without earning Life and Star!!!!

 

Only one of the first 9 Eagle Scout Awards was given to a Scout who had also earned Life and Star.

[boleta]

The order was changed to Star, Life and Eagle in 1925.

[acco40]

Those lamenting about boys who earn the Eagle rank (and receive the award) but do not "Demonstrate scout spirit by living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in your everyday life." are complaining after the horse has already left the barn.

 

That particular requirement exists for Tenderfoot, 2nd Class, 1st Class, Star and Life. To all of a sudden deny the rank of Eagle to a boy, who has had that particular requirement signed off for his previous five rank advancements when his behavior (however good or bad) has held constant is a sign of bad leadership on the part of the adult leaders. I'm not encouraging blanket sign-offs, I'm encouraging setting up expectations for the Scouts and holding them to those expectations.

 

We should expect what some have classified as "Eagle behavior" from ALL of our Scouts. No magic switch gets turned on as one becomes an Eagle Scout.

 

 

[EagleInKY]

You're exactly right Acco. And, while the wording is identical for each rank, I see it as progressively raising the bar. I don't expect as much from a Tenderfoot as I do a Star Scout. I will warn a scout who has spirit "issues" if I believe he is not living up to the expectations of the next level. By the time they get to the upper ranks, they should be living/breathing examples of what Scout Spirit is all about. And, you can point to them as examples for your younger scouts.

[scoutldr]

I don't disagree, acco. But the Eagle is the only "rank" that you wear until you die. "Once an Eagle, always an Eagle", but you're a Second Class only until you earn the next rank or turn 18, whichever comes first.

 

I guess the "gatekeeper" for all of this is the Scoutmaster. We need to be a lot more circumspect in signing off the "Scout Spirit" requirement. Speaking from personal experience, the SS requirement is only viewed in the Scouting context. It doesn't matter that he is failing 3 classes and was given in-school suspension for misbehavior three times this semsester...as long as he gets along with others OK on campouts...

 

The take-home message for Scouts and parents is that being a "Scout" is 24/7...not just for 90 minutes on Monday nights. It's a lifestyle, not just another extra-curricular activity.

 

 

[EagleInKY]

scoutldr - Another good point. The Scout Spirit requirement is a 24x7 requirement. That's a good example of "raising the bar". A scout may have some discipline problems at school that you know about. As you see him improve at scout functions, you may approve him on Scout Spirit for the lower ranks. But you can also use it a time to talk to him about it being a 24x7 responsibility. Hopefully, by the time he is to the Star & Life ranks, he is understanding that, and his "personality" away from scouts is more reflective of what a scout should be.

[Laurie]

This is something that I try to impress on our sons. Scouting isn't just living by the oath and law during the meeting time or at camp. It is something that should be part of school, home, church, neighborhood, work--in short, a way to guide how one lives. I do not understand how any youth can progress to Life or Star without demonstrating Scout-like attitudes, but I got a little insight into that not too long ago. When the adult leadership doesn't expect the youth to act right, doesn't set the tone by setting a positive and strong example, when all beneath Eagle is considered "easy stuff", then the problem is not with the youth. IMO, it is with the troop leadership. Things weren't right long before a youth who seems undeserving receives Eagle. As for whether it is an award or a rank, I'm not sure that matters (though the question is thought-provoking), for it has certain expectations, goals, etc. that make it challenging to earn. A rank and an award each needs to be earned, so for me the goal is to help our own sons and as leaders to help where able/appropriate to help other youth to see that Scout Spirit is demonstrated 24/7 in all situations, and to grow in it.

[mjlil]

Eagle Scout is a rank, always has and always will be. A boyscout doesn't receive an Eagle award, he must work his way up the scout "ranks".

 

Sincerly(This message has been edited by mjlil)