parent rank pins

[rickmay]

are parent rank pins allowed on the bsa uniform for adult leaders? my daughter is a 2nd class scout and I thought i'd represent her. I am an assistant scoutmaster and wanted to know if the parent pins were allowed. thanks.    --rick

[mashmaster]

4 minutes ago, rickmay said:

are parent rank pins allowed on the bsa uniform for adult leaders? my daughter is a 2nd class scout and I thought i'd represent her. I am an assistant scoutmaster and wanted to know if the parent pins were allowed. thanks.    --rick

Officially....no.

But personally I have seen them on the shirt collar flaps and never said a word.  Seems perfectly acceptable to me.

[The Latin Scot]

Actually, parent pins shouldn't be worn on the uniform, and there's really nothing to be gained by doing so. Let your child represent him- or herself in the youth uniform. You best represent the Scouts by being properly uniformed yourself, and part of that means remembering that parents' pins are meant for non-uniform wear. Nowadays, there are nice parent ribbons available at the Scout Store on the which you may place your pins, but again, those are not to wear on the uniform. In our troop, when we present our parent pins we remind them that while they are lovely reminders of their child's accomplishments, there is a proper time and place to wear them - as with all things. 

As an Assistant Scoutmaster, you should be particularly conscious of the way you wear your uniform. You set the model for the rest of your troop, so be sure you read The Official Guide to Awards and Insignia carefully, and follow it to the letter. Believe me when I say that being perfectly uniformed will set you apart enough already, but beyond that, simply being a well-uniformed leader will represent your daughter far better than any extra pins ever will.  

Edited September 27, 2019 by The Latin Scot

[Eagledad]

6 hours ago, The Latin Scot said:

Actually, parent pins shouldn't be worn on the uniform, and there's really nothing to be gained by doing so. Let your child represent him- or herself in the youth uniform. You best represent the Scouts by being properly uniformed yourself, and part of that means remembering that parents' pins are meant for non-uniform wear. Nowadays, there are nice parent ribbons available at the Scout Store on the which you may place your pins, but again, those are not to wear on the uniform. In our troop, when we present our parent pins we remind them that while they are lovely reminders of their child's accomplishments, there is a proper time and place to wear them - as with all things. 

As an Assistant Scoutmaster, you should be particularly conscious of the way you wear your uniform. You set the model for the rest of your troop, so be sure you read The Official Guide to Awards and Insignia carefully, and follow it to the letter. Believe me when I say that being perfectly uniformed will set you apart enough already, but beyond that, simply being a well-uniformed leader will represent your daughter far better than any extra pins ever will.  

Rarely have I disagreed with Latin Scot,  I'm not sure I ever have. But, nothing to be gained by showing pride for your kids kind of goes too far. Most here know that I take the uniform very seriously and setting the proper example is ver important. But, there are limits to what the adults are trying model.

To be fair, the only parents I saw wearing parent pins on the uniform were mothers. It didn't seemed like a dad thing to do. But, I always felt the pins looked appropriate.

I have nothing against knots, even though I'm a less-is-more kind of person and only wore the adult religious knot, I didn't mind other adults standing on their rows and rows of knots. In most cases, they earned them. That being said, I wouldn't mind a parent giving up a row or two to parent pins.

Barry

[qwazse]

12 hours ago, rickmay said:

are parent rank pins allowed on the bsa uniform for adult leaders? my daughter is a 2nd class scout and I thought i'd represent her. I am an assistant scoutmaster and wanted to know if the parent pins were allowed. thanks.    --rick

First @rickmay, congratulations to your daughter! By now you know that rank advancement ain't easy. It takes a good bit of dedication on the part of your daughter, her patrol, and her troop.

I accept a few dings on inspection and wear an Eagle parent pin and/or mentor pin on the collar of each of my uniforms. So my saying you can't wear a parent 2nd class pin would be akin to throwing stones from a glass house!

But, something to think about: everybody in the troop already knows your proud of your kid. What about the folks at church, work, the gym, the bar? Folks made those pins for you to show your pride for your scout when you're not in uniform. This is especially important for fathers of daughters. The rest of the world is still trying to get their heads around Scouts BSA, so that pin on work/casual clothes could turn you into your kid's ambassador!

Just a thought.

[mashmaster]

9 hours ago, The Latin Scot said:

Actually, parent pins shouldn't be worn on the uniform, and there's really nothing to be gained by doing so. Let your child represent him- or herself in the youth uniform. You best represent the Scouts by being properly uniformed yourself, and part of that means remembering that parents' pins are meant for non-uniform wear. Nowadays, there are nice parent ribbons available at the Scout Store on the which you may place your pins, but again, those are not to wear on the uniform. In our troop, when we present our parent pins we remind them that while they are lovely reminders of their child's accomplishments, there is a proper time and place to wear them - as with all things. 

As an Assistant Scoutmaster, you should be particularly conscious of the way you wear your uniform. You set the model for the rest of your troop, so be sure you read The Official Guide to Awards and Insignia carefully, and follow it to the letter. Believe me when I say that being perfectly uniformed will set you apart enough already, but beyond that, simply being a well-uniformed leader will represent your daughter far better than any extra pins ever will.  

You clearly would not approve of my uniform that is adorned with knots.  

I would rather let my actions stand for me that the uniform per se.  The youth see me doing servant leadership, support of the youth, standing up for what is right, and letting them lead speak for my scouting not my uniform.

[Eagle94-A1]

One thing I saw someone wearing was a leather rounder with Eagle  mentor pins on it. He wore it as a temporary patch. If I was to wear unofficial pins, I would go this route.

[desertrat77]

If wearing the pin would in any way encourage my child, I'd wear it.

The insignia guide is precisely that--a guide.  Not holy writ.

[The Latin Scot]

1 hour ago, mashmaster said:

You clearly would not approve of my uniform that is adorned with knots.  

This is simply not true, regardless of the fact that it may violate BSA policy. I would never be so callous as to voice 'disapproval' of somebody's uniform, however egregious its errors may or may not be. I don't know whence this suggestion comes. But this discussion is about the parent pins, not the knots; consequently, I think it's important to use better terms for this conversation.

Approval has nothing to do with this. It's not my place to approve or disapprove of these things, nor anybody else's. Approval is not the point of this discussion. However, there are very clear, and I dare say very easy-to-follow policies outlined by the BSA in The Official Guide to Awards and Insignia regarding what is and is not appropriate for uniform wear according to national standards. Despite its title, it is more than merely a "guide" - it's a handbook of official policy. No, it's not "holy writ" (don't exaggerate now; nobody said that it was), but it's not mere suggestion either. It's the national standard. It outlines the specifics of what is permitted for uniform wear, and what is not. Follow it so that you can comply with our organization's expectations, and you'll be doing yourself a great favor. Ignore it, and, well, that's your choice - but you're setting an example to the youth you serve either way. My approval is irrelevant. Your example is everything.

I know parents in particular get touchy when it comes to their parent pins, but really, it's such a small thing - are we really going to let a few pins keep us from truly embracing proper uniforming? My mother has a ribbon that looks like a long piece of chain mail garnered over the years from her three Eagle scout sons, but she isn't so attached to it that she ever feels the "need" to wear it, especially not with her uniform. She's learned to discern what really matters from what's just 'fluff.' She's been Scouting for over 30 years now, and she's discovered there are better ways to honor her kids than by skirting around the uniform policy just to show of her 'parental swag.' I'm grateful to her for her example in teaching us that she doesn't need to wear her pins to show us that she cares about Scouting - or about us. Parental pride is one thing, but parental example is infinitely more efficacious.

Whether or not we may think or feel the pins look okay, the fact is they are very specifically stated as being for civilian use - not for uniform wear. That's the policy. It's so simple, I'm almost surprised there's discussion about it. Anybody can follow this rule. @rickmay, your profile image suggests that you are an army veteran. You then, of all people, should know and appreciate the importance of a uniform, and of wearing it properly. That applies to Scouting just as much as it does the armed forces, or to first responders. Our uniforms mean something. These small details reveal great things about our character.

Edited September 27, 2019 by The Latin Scot

[TMSM]

When I talk about the difference between scouters and  adults in my troop I highlight the fact that scouters treat each scouts as thier own. I have many adults that are there only for their scouts and they would be the type to wear a mothers pin on their uniform and then argue with other scouters about why its ok to do so. If you are SM or ASM don't show favortism or remind other scouts that thier parents don't care.

[mashmaster]

49 minutes ago, The Latin Scot said:

This is simply not true, regardless of the fact that it may violate BSA policy. I would never be so callous as to voice 'disapproval' of somebody's uniform, however egregious its errors may or may not be. I don't know whence this suggestion comes. But this discussion is about the parent pins, not the knots; consequently, I think it's important to use better terms for this conversation.

Approval has nothing to do with this. It's not my place to approve or disapprove of these things, nor anybody else's. Approval is not the point of this discussion. However, there are very clear, and I dare say very easy-to-follow policies outlined by the BSA in The Official Guide to Awards and Insignia regarding what is and is not appropriate for uniform wear according to national standards. Despite its title, it is more than merely a "guide" - it's a handbook of official policy. No, it's not "holy writ" (don't exaggerate now; nobody said that it was), but it's not mere suggestion either. It's the national standard. It outlines the specifics of what is permitted for uniform wear, and what is not. Follow it so that you can comply with our organization's expectations, and you'll be doing yourself a great favor. Ignore it, and, well, that's your choice - but you're setting an example to the youth you serve either way. My approval is irrelevant. Your example is everything.

I know parents in particular get touchy when it comes to their parent pins, but really, it's such a small thing - are we really going to let a few pins keep us from truly embracing proper uniforming? My mother has a ribbon that looks like a long piece of chain mail garnered over the years from her three Eagle scout sons, but she isn't so attached to it that she ever feels the "need" to wear it, especially not with her uniform. She's learned to discern what really matters from what's just 'fluff.' She's been Scouting for over 30 years now, and she's discovered there are better ways to honor her kids than by skirting around the uniform policy just to show of her 'parental swag.' I'm grateful to her for her example in teaching us that she doesn't need to wear her pins to show us that she cares about Scouting - or about us. Parental pride is one thing, but parental example is infinitely more efficacious.

Whether or not we may think or feel the pins look okay, the fact is they are very specifically stated as being for civilian use - not for uniform wear. That's the policy. It's so simple, I'm almost surprised there's discussion about it. Anybody can follow this rule. @rickmay, your profile image suggests that you are an army veteran. You then, of all people, should know and appreciate the importance of a uniform, and of wearing it properly. That applies to Scouting just as much as it does the armed forces, or to first responders. Our uniforms mean something. These small details reveal great things about our character.

If you read your initial email you are  disapproving of him wearing the pin on his uniform.   You say it isn't your place but then you go on to say that he shouldn't especially as an ASM.  He should follow the uniform code to the letter...."simply being a well-uniformed leader will represent your daughter far better than any extra pins ever will"  That may not seem like a disapproval by you but it is.

If wearing the pin has anyway of encouraging a scout to continue on then go for it.  We are here for the youth first.

[perdidochas]

4 hours ago, Eagledad said:

Rarely have I disagreed with Latin Scot,  I'm not sure I ever have. But, nothing to be gained by showing pride for your kids kind of goes too far. Most here know that I take the uniform very seriously and setting the proper example is ver important. But, there are limits to what the adults are trying model.

To be fair, the only parents I saw wearing parent pins on the uniform were mothers. It didn't seemed like a dad thing to do. But, I always felt the pins looked appropriate.

I have nothing against knots, even though I'm a less-is-more kind of person and only wore the adult religious knot, I didn't mind other adults standing on their rows and rows of knots. In most cases, they earned them. That being said, I wouldn't mind a parent giving up a row or two to parent pins.

Barry

I've always worn my Eagle Dad (and Eagle Mentor) pins on my uniform.  I don't care about the regulations, it just seems like the right thing to do.  That said, in Cub Scouts, the Cub leaders all had leather name badges, and we would put our sons' pins on it. 

https://www.scoutshop.org/leather-name-tag-kit-17451.html

[The Latin Scot]

1 hour ago, mashmaster said:

If you read your initial email you are  disapproving of him wearing the pin on his uniform.   You say it isn't your place but then you go on to say that he shouldn't especially as an ASM.  He should follow the uniform code to the letter...."simply being a well-uniformed leader will represent your daughter far better than any extra pins ever will"  That may not seem like a disapproval by you but it is.

If wearing the pin has anyway of encouraging a scout to continue on then go for it.  We are here for the youth first.

Putting words into somebody's mouth is rarely a good idea, and rest assured, I always read my own messages. I never once said "I disapprove." You might infer it, but you can't claim I said it, and just to reinforce my point - I express no disapproval of anybody's uniform, despite the fact that I do openly state my disagreement with the position of some regarding parent pins upon them. But they are two different things, and I'd appreciate if you wouldn't try to divine what I do or do not approve of when I am perfectly capable of doing so myself. I will define my own opinions - not you. Thank you.

Official BSA policy states that parent pins are not for uniform wear. That isn't my disapproval. That's official regulation. How I opine on the matter is irrelevant. 

Also, if we are truly here for the youth first, then why are we trying to bend to rules with our own uniforms - isn't that putting ourselves first? If you want to encourage a Scout to continue, don't do it by evading basic policy. That's not helping the youth at all. Surely we don't have to resort to extra bling on our shirts to encourage our youth; if so, we are in a desperate state indeed.

Edited September 27, 2019 by The Latin Scot

[Eagledad]

9 minutes ago, The Latin Scot said:

Putting words into somebody's mouth is rarely a good idea, and rest assured, I always read my own messages. I never once said "I disapprove." You might infer it, but you can't claim I said it, and just to reinforce my point - I express no disapproval of anybody's uniform, despite the fact that I do openly state my disagreement with the position of some regarding parent pins upon them. But they are two different things, and I'd appreciate if you wouldn't try to divine what I do or do not approve of when I am perfectly capable of doing so myself. I will define my own opinions - not you. Thank you.

Official BSA policy states that parent pins are not for uniform wear. That isn't my disapproval. That's official regulation. How I opine on the matter is irrelevant. 

Also, if we are truly here for the youth first, then why are we trying to bend to rules with our own uniforms - isn't that putting ourselves first? If you want to encourage a Scout to continue, don't do it by evading basic policy. That's not helping the youth at all. Surely we don't have to resort to extra bling on our shirts to encourage our youth; if so, we are in a desperate state indeed.

Desperate? Sure sounds like you disapprove.

There isn't any art to disagreeing agreeably, just requires a little humility.

Barry

[mrkstvns]

26 minutes ago, The Latin Scot said:

Official BSA policy states that parent pins are not for uniform wear. That isn't my disapproval. That's official regulation. How I opine on the matter is irrelevant. 

 

Well, Latin Scot, you're right. That's what the policy says, but don't you think that maybe the policy is the MINIMUM amount of Flair we should put on our uniforms?  And maybe some of us might want to express ourselves a little more loudly....

Look at perdidochas over there....he has 37 pieces of Flair on his uniform.

No, I'm not saying you need to add lots of blinking lights and clown emblems to your uniform....unless maybe you feel it lets you be you....

Why do I feel like these discussions of rogue uniform practices always sound so much like Jennifer Aniston getting a lecture about her "Flair" in the 90s flick, "Office Space"...