Real estate donation

[ddouglass]

Our troop has a former Eagle Scout in poor health that wants to donate a piece of undeveloped property along a recreational river directly to the troop.  What would be the best way to have that set up (as I know the troop itself is not a legal entity)?  Has anyone had that done before? If so, how was it done and how did you deal with insurance and property taxes?

Any guidance you might give would be appreciated.

Thanks. 

[RememberSchiff]

@ddouglass  welcome to scouter.com.  Good question.

[Jameson76]

Easy way is to donate to the CO (assuming the are a 501c3) FBO (for the benefit of) the troop for a period etc.  Depending on how much may be good to get a board to oversee.

[mrkstvns]

Donating to the CO sounds like a workable plan.

Another possibility is to set up a revocable land trust to hold the title.

You might need to get an attorney to do this for you, or you may be able to consult with  your local "Bank & Trust". Better to rely on professional advice about this than it is to listen to most of us typical internet users...well intentioned as we might be.

[scoutldr]

Might also want to keep your SE in the loop...they get real touchy when we accept donations under the auspices of the BSA.

[Thunderbird]

I would definitely get professional legal advice so that everything is done in accordance with the donor's wishes.  A trust might be the way to go, and the donor could name a trustee who would be responsible for making sure property taxes are paid, etc.

[Eagle94-A1]

1) Get local legal advice.

2) Whatever you do, DO NOT GIVE IT OUTRIGHT TO AN ORGANIZATION! (caps for emphasis)  I say that because camps are being sold. https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-2006-02-12-0602120249-story.html

My former boss is in this one

 In Texas, the Three Rivers Council convinced the nonprofit Stark Foundation to waive deed restrictions in 2001 to allow the sale of Camp Bill Stark, a 132-acre pine woodland near Beaumont.
Lutcher Stark had donated the land some 70 years earlier, specifying it be used for a camp. Scouting officials said they couldn't afford to maintain it, and promised to use sale proceeds to improve another camp. But once released from the deed restriction, they sold the land to an investment firm, and most of it was immediately clear-cut.
Foundation Chairman Walter Riedel III, an Eagle Scout, said scout leaders assured foundation officials that part of the woodland would be preserved as a camp.
"Being a scout - I expected them to do the right thing and be honest with us and I'm not real sure that happened," Riedel said.
Former executive Jack Crawford, who no longer works for the scouts, declined comment.[NOTE by Eagle94-A1: Crawford left TX to become a field director in NC. While he is still employed by the BSA, he has been a FD for 17+ years now.  At least he isn't getting promoted]

 

[ValleyBoy]

15 hours ago, mrkstvns said:

Donating to the CO sounds like a workable plan.

Another possibility is to set up a revocable land trust to hold the title.

You might need to get an attorney to do this for you, or you may be able to consult with  your local "Bank & Trust". Better to rely on professional advice about this than it is to listen to most of us typical internet users...well intentioned as we might be.

Plus 1 to this.  The local scout camp that I attended as a youth and were my grandfather served on staff at in the 1940's was donated to the scouts sometime between 1911 and 1920.  This 40 something acre camp is held in a trust by the local scout council.   Around 1990 the local council became part of our neighbor council.  In the mid 2000's the local council closed the camp and the speculations were that they intended to sell the property.  What the new council did not know was that they did not own the property  so they could not sell the property.   The way the property was worded in the trust that the council held was that the scouts had the use of the property as long as they did not abandon the property.  If the scouts abandoned the property  the land would revert to the local city.

[Eagle94-A1]

9 hours ago, ValleyBoy said:

Plus 1 to this.  The local scout camp that I attended as a youth and were my grandfather served on staff at in the 1940's was donated to the scouts sometime between 1911 and 1920.  This 40 something acre camp is held in a trust by the local scout council.   Around 1990 the local council became part of our neighbor council.  In the mid 2000's the local council closed the camp and the speculations were that they intended to sell the property.  What the new council did not know was that they did not own the property  so they could not sell the property.   The way the property was worded in the trust that the council held was that the scouts had the use of the property as long as they did not abandon the property.  If the scouts abandoned the property  the land would revert to the local city.

We have the same situation in my council. As long as the Scouts use the camp, it's ours. Once upon a time a someone mentioned in the article I cited was considering selling the camp. He was not investing anything into that camp, and it was maintained solely by individual troops and the OA chapters that use the camp the most. Consideration for selling it abruptly ended, and it was left to benign neglect. Story I heard is the camp is held in trust, and it reverts to the family if we stop using it. Glad we got it as it is the only Scout camp that Cubs can do boating activities at. The other ones are on a river.

 

[ParkMan]

1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

We have the same situation in my council. As long as the Scouts use the camp, it's ours. Once upon a time a someone mentioned in the article I cited was considering selling the camp. He was not investing anything into that camp, and it was maintained solely by individual troops and the OA chapters that use the camp the most. Consideration for selling it abruptly ended, and it was left to benign neglect. Story I heard is the camp is held in trust, and it reverts to the family if we stop using it. Glad we got it as it is the only Scout camp that Cubs can do boating activities at. The other ones are on a river.

 

Could you set it up as a trust held by a local by the leadership of a local troop?

[HashTagScouts]

Local laws might affect what you can do or how to do it.  The only offer I can give you is you might want to contact the Board for this org, as they might have some advice: http://www.memorialscoutcamp.org

 

[elitts]

One of the issues that will be relevant is the payment of property taxes.  If the property isn't held for exempt purposes, the annual taxes will have to come out of someone's pocket.  It would probably be worth speaking with a tax lawyer to figure out how to get around that part, then decide where to go from there.

[RememberSchiff]

On 9/11/2019 at 9:48 PM, Eagle94-A1 said:

1) Get local legal advice

Case in point: Greater Tampa Bay Area  Council selling 50 acre parcel of Sand Hill Scout Reservation.

When businessman Larry DiePolder died in 1978, he left about 1,300 natural acres in Hernando County (Sand Hill Scout Reservation) to the Boy Scouts with explicit instructions - the land must never be sold “in any way shape or form” or be used for any commercial purposes, according to his will. DiePolder stated the acreage should serve only for the Boy Scouts to “enjoy the great outdoors and the beauties and benefits of nature.”

...

Despite the wishes outlined by its benefactor, the Greater Tampa Bay Area Council of the Boy Scouts of America is currently in talks to sell a 50-acre portion of the Sand Hill reservation along SR 50 to the Withlacoochee River Electric Cooperative for it to build an administrative office, Scout executive Mike Butler confirmed on Tuesday.

In January, after the Boy Scouts sought a court order to clarify the title on the land, a Hernando County Circuit Court judge ruled the council was not bound to the terms outlined by DiePolder. The ruling states that when his family conveyed the 1,300 acres to the Boy Scouts 45 years ago, the deeds did not include any of the usage restrictions cited in the will.

Those deeds conveyed the Sand Hill property to the Boy Scouts without the restrictions DiePolder outlined in his will. After the Boy Scouts sought the court order clarifying the title, Circuit Court Judge Donald Eugene Scaglione ruled in January that the deeds issued by DiePolder’s son superseded the will and conveyed the land “free and clear of the use restrictions.”

 

DiePolder wrote in his will that if the Boy Scouts ever failed to use the property as he wished, then the land should be given to Hernando County “to be used as a recreational area and park.”

But Hernando County filed a motion consenting to the Boy Scouts clarifying the title. Scaglione ruled that any rights the county had to the land in the will are null and void.

More at source:

https://www.tampabay.com/news/hernando/2024/08/21/boy-scouts-talks-sell-50-acre-slice-brooksville-reservation/

 

[InquisitiveScouter]

6 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

Case in point: Greater Tampa Bay Area  Council selling 50 acre parcel of Sand Hill Scout Reservation.

When businessman Larry DiePolder died in 1978, he left about 1,300 natural acres in Hernando County (Sand Hill Scout Reservation) to the Boy Scouts with explicit instructions - the land must never be sold “in any way shape or form” or be used for any commercial purposes, according to his will. DiePolder stated the acreage should serve only for the Boy Scouts to “enjoy the great outdoors and the beauties and benefits of nature.”

...

Despite the wishes outlined by its benefactor, the Greater Tampa Bay Area Council of the Boy Scouts of America is currently in talks to sell a 50-acre portion of the Sand Hill reservation along SR 50 to the Withlacoochee River Electric Cooperative for it to build an administrative office, Scout executive Mike Butler confirmed on Tuesday.

In January, after the Boy Scouts sought a court order to clarify the title on the land, a Hernando County Circuit Court judge ruled the council was not bound to the terms outlined by DiePolder. The ruling states that when his family conveyed the 1,300 acres to the Boy Scouts 45 years ago, the deeds did not include any of the usage restrictions cited in the will.

Those deeds conveyed the Sand Hill property to the Boy Scouts without the restrictions DiePolder outlined in his will. After the Boy Scouts sought the court order clarifying the title, Circuit Court Judge Donald Eugene Scaglione ruled in January that the deeds issued by DiePolder’s son superseded the will and conveyed the land “free and clear of the use restrictions.”

 

DiePolder wrote in his will that if the Boy Scouts ever failed to use the property as he wished, then the land should be given to Hernando County “to be used as a recreational area and park.”

But Hernando County filed a motion consenting to the Boy Scouts clarifying the title. Scaglione ruled that any rights the county had to the land in the will are null and void.

More at source:

https://www.tampabay.com/news/hernando/2024/08/21/boy-scouts-talks-sell-50-acre-slice-brooksville-reservation/

 

Old thread resurrected by @RememberSchiff, but still a good point to touch on...

1 .  Only a legal person or incorporation (legal embodiment to create the same rights as a legal person, so same concept) may own property.

2.  Never, ever, donate the land to a council (or national).  The donor's intent will eventually be subverted to turn it into cash for the council.  (see the ongoing row over Philmont  https://themountainnewswa.net/2019/12/06/philmont-the-national-boy-scout-ranch-cherished-by-millions-of-americans-is-put-in-hock-to-pay-bsa-debts/) I have seen this about a dozen times over my 45+ years with the organization.  If the the donor's intent is to have it used in perpetuity by Scouts, then a trust is perhaps the best way to achieve this.  As mentioned above, spend the couple hundred bucks need to seek out local legal advice and set up the necessary arrangements.  Some reversion of rights and ownership should be meticulously spelled out to ensure the donor's intent is followed for a long time in the future (or perpetuity).

3.  Chartered Organizations come and go.  They host troops over time, and then have times when they do not... I do not recommend donating the land to a Chartered Organization.  The same thing can/will happen as in item 2 above.

4.  Troops can, and do, become incorporated.  It is possible to have a Troop form articles of incorporation in your state, so that they may own (receive legal title to) property.  (BSA recommends against this, simply because they do not want any competition in the grab for funds.  If anyone tells you anything different, run away fast and file them in your "do not have dealing with this person" category.)  Again, if this Troop corporation dissolves, what will happen with the property?  A trust could address this issue.

 

 

[mrjohns2]

14 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Troops can, and do, become incorporated. 

I’d say the troop doesn’t become incorporated, but the adults in troops can form corporations for the benefit of the troop (either parallel to the CharteredOrg or to become the CharteredOrg).