How to fulfil the leadership for "Adult" scouts with the Eagle Scout extension

[Tatung42]

We are getting to the point where the motivated girls who joined in February 1st are starting to earn first class and need leadership for star and beyond.  Has it been answered how the 18 year olds with the with the Eagle Scout extension can earn their leadership requirements?  Scoutmaster-approved leadership project could work for star and life but are not allowed for eagle.

Possibilities I see:

1. Allow them to serve in a youth leadership role even though they are no longer youth.
2. Count adult leadership positions like ASM towards their rank advancement even though they are not on the list of positions of responsibility required for rank advancement.
3. Force the scouts to join a Venture Crew and serve in leadership there.

1 and 2 are clearly bending the rules.  And 3 maybe not be practical if there are no crews nearby.

Also we need to sort this out within the next 5-weeks because these 18-year olds are on the clock (need to start star leadership before Oct1).

Edited August 20, 2019 by Tatung42

[qwazse]

52 minutes ago, Tatung42 said:

We are getting to the point where the motivated girls who joined in February 1st are starting to earn first class and need leadership for star and beyond.  Has it been answered how the 18 year olds with the with the Eagle Scout extension can earn their leadership requirements?  Scoutmaster-approved leadership project could work for star and life but are not allowed for eagle.

Possibilities I see:

1. Allow them to serve in a youth leadership role even though they are no longer youth.
2. Count adult leadership positions like ASM towards their rank advancement even though they are not on the list of positions of responsibility required for rank advancement.
3. Force the scouts to join a Venture Crew and serve in leadership there.

1 and 2 are clearly bending the rules.  And 3 maybe not be practical if there are no crews nearby.

Also we need to sort this out within the next 5-weeks because these 18-year olds are on the clock (need to start star leadership before Oct1).

List be damned. I believe ASM is the most appropriate position for an 18+ year old working on Eagle. Being a young ASM is sort of scouting's finishing school. It's really the last step in leadership development before going off to college, war, or to earn your fortune.

Sure joining a Crew could be an option, if they'd elect you to a position. In my crew, positions were not gimme's. You had to be worthy of your peer's approval. The method in Venturing is not "leadership development" but "leadership", so I took that to mean "don't try, do." If the crew had doubts about your dedication, you weren't getting elected.

Obviously, I'm coming from a perspective where I think any adult Advisor, SM, Co-Advisor, or ASM should have to earn First Class, and if they desire to go on to earn Eagle, they should be permitted to do so. So, my answer is based on my intuition and not based on some pronouncement from BSA.

However, I do believe that ASM is the natural next step for such a scout. Knowing that they can talk to you adult-to-adult is really important for them and for your community. So, giving them the patch that says they can do that is a great way to "raise the bar" for that relationship.

Caveat: as always, my position continues to be only give positions to those who will do the work. If the candidate is only going to be nominally ASM, they don't deserve to advance in rank. But I also recognize my young ASMs if they contribute to the life of the troop on the few weekends or evenings that they have free from college or military. Those hours explaining to scouts what life is now like for them is invaluable.

Edited August 20, 2019 by qwazse

[HashTagScouts]

For the purposes of the Eagle application, and being that I am not sure if Scoutbook will allow 'ASM', then you can call them JASM.  Like Qwazse, I would encourage having the youth in positions like QM, SPL, Scribe, etc.

[mashmaster]

Along with #3 is to join a Sea Scout ship.

I am not sure what the right answer is.

[Thunderbird]

Please talk to your council's Advancement Chair to confirm, but #1 is the answer.  The leadership POR requirements for Eagle Scout rank have not changed.  The only thing that has changed is that these older Scouts (girls and boys) can request a temporary time extension to continue working on Scouts BSA ranks, merit badges, and awards.  Please do not register them as an Assistant Scoutmaster (ASM).  This will mess everything up for them in the BSA's computer systems and would most likely risk their ability to earn the Eagle Scout rank.  ASM is not one of the allowed positions under requirement #4 on the Eagle Scout rank application (page 2).  As long as they are covered by the time extension, they can hold any of the Scouts BSA youth leadership positions.

#3 is an option for them, but it is their choice (not forced by unit leaders) to join a Venturing crew or a Sea Scout ship (assuming that there is one nearby to join).

From what I have heard, there is going to be a new registration code called Unit Participant (UP) for these older Scouts with time extensions but still pursuing Scouts BSA ranks and advancements.  More information is supposed to be sent to council registrars in August (I do not know if this information has been sent out yet or not).  To me, this sounds like a temporary version of Venturing/Sea Scouting's "adult participants" who can continue working on their ranks, awards, and advancements while they are age 18-20.

Edited August 22, 2019 by Thunderbird

[Thunderbird]

Adding on to my previous post:

For YPT purposes, I believe they will be treated as adults:  they will need to submit a BSA adult application (using the Unit Participant (UP) position and code), consent to a criminal background check, follow the adult rules for tenting and bathing, etc.

But for program purposes (earning Scouts BSA ranks, merit badges, and awards), they will be treated as "youth" for as long as they have an approved time extension.

Again, please confirm with your council's Advancement Chair and Registrar.