Philmont Gear Review

[69RoadRunner]

Just flew back from Philmont and boy are my glutes tired.  This was our first trip and I’ll try to cover my personal gear, crew gear and my son’s gear.

My Tent – Tarptent Aeon – Well, early on at Ponil, I forgot to pull out 1 stake, pulled on the tent and made a major rip where the mesh attaches to the Dyneema.  Argh!  Tenacious tape kept it usable, but it’s toast.

I brought it because people said sites were tight. We had 3 advisers and I got to tent alone. Not true. I could fit my Duplex in every spot I put my Aeon. I planned to sell either the Aeon or Duplex, but now that decision is made for me.

The Aeon is a good tent. However, at just shy of 6’3″ and 202 pounds (came home weighing 190) I just don’t fit in a 1 person tent. My shoulder would brush against the wall.  Twice we had condensation and that meant a wet shoulder.

Verdict: I will look at 2 person tents for the next trip. However, the Aeon is a good tent.

Son’s Tent – MLD Duomid with Duomid Inner.  Silnylon – This worked well for 2 skinny scouts. It was lighter than half a Philtent.  Larger scouts will be cramped. It was all in 1 bag so his tentmate took more of the food to balance things out.

Verdict: If you’re willing to make the purchase and scouts aren’t big, it worked well. I could sell it.

My Backpack – Zpacks Arc Haul – This worked well. Our first food pickup was for 4 days. Packing everything in was a challenge for the crew.  I took the crew tarp we brought, my tent and a Helinox Chair Zero strapped to the bottom. I didn’t anticipate taking the tarp and just barely had enough paracord to hold them.  I’ll replace with longer cord.

It carried well, was light and have only good things to say. The mesh pocket has 2 tears.

Verdict: Will use again.

Son’s Backpack – REI Flash 55 – I spent a lot of time shopping sales for fairly light, compact gear for my son. Others on the crew didn’t do as well. This pack only works if you have compact gear and don’t overpack. He used all optional pieces.

Verdict: Very good pack at a good price. It is smaller than most scout packs, so you must have compact personal gear.

My Sleeping Bag – Feathered Friends Flicker YF 30 – This is a hybrid quilt/bag. It has a full ziper and the foot box cinches closed. I assumed it was warmer in bag mode.  It was warmer in quilt mode. I bought an attachment strap to keep it tight to the pad. In bag mode, the zipper was a cold spot, even with a draft tube. In quilt mode, this wasn’t an issue.

It was varying degrees (pun intended) of cold every night. There were no hot nights. My sleep clothes (covered later) were not as warm as they should have been.  Not the bag’s fault.

Verdict: Unsure. I like the quilt.  Perhaps 20 degrees would be better. Better clothes would work, too. Quality product.

Son’s Sleeping Bag – Summit 20°F StormLOFT™ Down Sleeping Bag – I got this on sale. It’s not as compact as more expensive bags, but for a scout, it was probably the most compact, light crew bag. My son was never cold.

Verdict – shop the sales and this is a good choice for scouts.

My Sleeping Pad – Xlite long/wide – I’m tall and I’ve tried smaller pads.  It’s impossible to sleep on them. This worked well.

Verdict: Will use again

Son’s Pad – Nemo Switchback – This is probably the best closed cell foam pad. Bulkier than inflatable, but no risk of holes.

Verdict: Great choice for scouts.

My Rain Jacket – North Face Hyperair GTX – Light, relatively breathable and kept me dry.

Verdict: Love it!

My Rain Pants – Montbell Peak Shell – light and did the job.

Verdict: Use again

Shoes – Altra Lone Peak 4 – Sigh, they fit great. No blisters or pain. Only 1 wet shoe water crossing and they dried quickly. However, after 2 prep hikes and 1 Philmont trip, the left toe kick is coming off.

Verdict: Love everything but the durability.  Will consider other options.

Socks – Darn Tough – comfy and durable.

Trekking Poles – REI Flash Carbon – worked well.

Gaiters – Dirty Girl Skulls – kept debris out of my shoes and my socks less dirty.  Use again.

Watch – Garmin Fenix 5x – Gave poor numbers with auto pause on. Worked great with that off.  Use again.

Chair – Helinox Chair Zero – Used every day. Not good enough to nap in, but worth the weight on this type of trip.  Use again, but keep eye open if something better comes out.

Headlamp – Nitecore – Light, compact and charge lasted all week.

Water Bottles – Smartwater – Multiple people in other crews saw how great it was to be able to fit 2 bottles in the side pockets rather than 1 heavier Nalgene.  Great choice.

Sleep Bottoms Warm – Odlo Light Merino – Too light. Mid weight would be better choice for me.

Sleep Bottoms Light – Dutchwear Gear Shorts – Too cold to wear them.

Sleep Shirt – Montbell Merino Wool Plus T shirt – Too cold to wear by itself. Very light, nice shirt.

Sleep Hat – Blackrock Gear 950 Down – Light, compact, warm.  Use again.

Sleep Fleece – Kuiu Mountain Fit Hoodie – Should have noticed how short this fits. Poor fit and too light. Hood combined with the hat made for good earplugs.  Will take a better fleece next time.

Possum Down Socks – These were so comfy to put on at night.  Definitely recommend.

Ghost Whisperer Puffy – No hood version.  This was just barely adequate.  I would go with something a little warmer with a hood.  The cold rain in the afternoon was not joyful.  I’d put my raincoat on over this, but just was able to prevent shivering while waiting around the campsite.

 

Crew Gear

Tarp – Sanctuary Siltarp – We had 9 in our crew.  At no time did all 9 of us use it. It was only used a few times. A full crew of 12 would struggle to fit under it. With trekking poles, it wasn’t really high enough.  Attaching to trees (using twigs like the bear ropes) or finding a stick longer than a trekking pole made it more usable.  It more than doubled in weight when packed away wet.

Verdict: It worked but will re-evaluate, particularly if we have a larger crew.

Pots – Boscovs 6 quart pots – Smaller than Philpots. For 9, only 1 meal came close to filling it. We only heated enough water for meals and washed with cold water as Camp Suds says is fine.

Verdict: Use again

Stakes – Groundhog Minis – Worked, but I hate the tops.  They hurt your hand. We broke a LNT rule and used rocks to push, not pound them in.  Probably use again.

Stove – Xcelerator remote canister stove – Light and worked well. Use again.  I hate white gas stoves.

Bowls – Fozzils Bowls – These were crew gear.  Light, cheap, compact and easy to lick clean.  Perfect!

[JasonG172]

Thanks for the review,  we just received our date for next year and I am now in GEAR MODE.  Pretty much made up my mind on pack (Osprey 60) so its the other stuff I am thinking about.  You mention your sleeping bag and I guess I didn't realize how much the temp dropped, I was just going to use my small compact summer bag but it sounds like I need to be looking for a 30 degree bag.  Is that what you're telling me?   

[69RoadRunner]

On 8/22/2019 at 5:22 PM, JasonG172 said:

Thanks for the review,  we just received our date for next year and I am now in GEAR MODE.  Pretty much made up my mind on pack (Osprey 60) so its the other stuff I am thinking about.  You mention your sleeping bag and I guess I didn't realize how much the temp dropped, I was just going to use my small compact summer bag but it sounds like I need to be looking for a 30 degree bag.  Is that what you're telling me?   

Yes, you really do need to be prepared for chilly nights.  Maybe it won't be as cold when you go, but it could be.

[SteveMM]

On 8/22/2019 at 5:22 PM, JasonG172 said:

Thanks for the review,  we just received our date for next year and I am now in GEAR MODE.  Pretty much made up my mind on pack (Osprey 60) so its the other stuff I am thinking about.  You mention your sleeping bag and I guess I didn't realize how much the temp dropped, I was just going to use my small compact summer bag but it sounds like I need to be looking for a 30 degree bag.  Is that what you're telling me?   

My son went with his troop in early July.  He had a sleeping bag that supposedly had a 20-degree rating, but in my research I saw several comments that it was really a 30-degree bag that would keep you alive at 20 degrees.  It was perfect for him.  He said he was never cold.  Speaking of cold -- be sure to bring little things like a stocking cap and light gloves.  My son moaned when I suggested he take them, but they don't weigh anything and he ended up wearing them a lot in the morning.

[Double Eagle]

We had a snowball fight on Baldy on 4th of July in 1982.  Back then cotton sweatshirts were common.  We  muscled through with all our gear and only carried two (at most) water bottles/canteens.  Those old red 1 1/2 qt BSA canteens had a cap that was a pain to fill sometimes due to location.  A beanie and gloves would have been nice.  Gear has improved so much.  Now boot types at Philmont, heavy or lightweight trailrunners, are always an issue and you can't find two scouts that agree.  I've see heavy climbing, military jungle boots (worked great), to almost sneakers.  Between loose rock and frequent rain/hail storms, you get the best of nature.   

[SteveMM]

2 minutes ago, Double Eagle said:

We had a snowball fight on Baldy on 4th of July in 1982.  Back then cotton sweatshirts were common.  We  muscled through with all our gear and only carried two (at most) water bottles/canteens.  Those old red 1 1/2 qt BSA canteens had a cap that was a pain to fill sometimes due to location.  A beanie and gloves would have been nice.  Gear has improved so much.  Now boot types at Philmont, heavy or lightweight trailrunners, are always an issue and you can't find two scouts that agree.  I've see heavy climbing, military jungle boots (worked great), to almost sneakers.  Between loose rock and frequent rain/hail storms, you get the best of nature.   

There were patches of snow on Baldy this year while my son was there.  I'm not sure what day they made the trip up the mountain, but their trek started on July 4.

We had a couple of leaders on that trek go with trail running shoes.  They said since the trails are all very well defined, they didn't feel the need to have boots.  The trail runners aren't waterproof, but they dry quickly.  They said it was a strategy that worked well for them.  I suggested it to my son, but he's a traditionalist and wanted boots for the ankle support.

[JasonG172]

Again new to this!  Philmont provided tents? Opinions anyone.

[SteveMM]

5 minutes ago, JasonG172 said:

Again new to this!  Philmont provided tents? Opinions anyone.

Yes.  You can bring your own tent, but they insist that you certify that no food has ever been inside the tent.  Because ... you know ... bears and mountain lions.  They also discourage one-man tents.  If you choose not to bring your own tent, they will provide them for you.  

[69RoadRunner]

7 hours ago, SteveMM said:

There were patches of snow on Baldy this year while my son was there.  I'm not sure what day they made the trip up the mountain, but their trek started on July 4.

We had a couple of leaders on that trek go with trail running shoes.  They said since the trails are all very well defined, they didn't feel the need to have boots.  The trail runners aren't waterproof, but they dry quickly.  They said it was a strategy that worked well for them.  I suggested it to my son, but he's a traditionalist and wanted boots for the ankle support.

I used trail runners.  I think the support from boots is dubious.  Waterproof boots are waterproof in both directions. Once they're wet, they take forever to dry.  Boots are also heavier.  Every step lifting more weight is not joyful.

45 minutes ago, JasonG172 said:

Again new to this!  Philmont provided tents? Opinions anyone.

Only take your own tents if you have something significantly better than the Philtents.  They're easy to set up, so it's not like knowing your own tent is any kind of issue.  If you have a much lighter, high quality backpacking tent, consider bringing it.  Otherwise, use the Philtents.  If you have any problem, they can replace it.  

[SteveMM]

16 hours ago, 69RoadRunner said:

I used trail runners.  I think the support from boots is dubious.  Waterproof boots are waterproof in both directions. Once they're wet, they take forever to dry.  Boots are also heavier.  Every step lifting more weight is not joyful.

We picked up a pair of Oboz boots for my son.  They were remarkably light, and he said he was very comfortable other than a couple of minor blisters while his feet got used to the trail.  I think the boots vs trail runners debate is one of personal preference.  I didn't make the trip with the troop, but if I did I probably would have worn trail runners.  I use them for my everyday shoes anyhow.

[Double Eagle]

I'm more in favor using their tents.  You don't have buy them.  Really, you can treat them rough...sorry.  If damaged on the trail, a staffed camp may help replace it.  They don't take up room while you are traveling to and from the center.  I'm not in favor of all the solo tents.  How about doubling up, reduce footprints, and when adults demo solo tents, every scout then wants the same.  And please don't suggest Philmont allow hammocks. 

[Eagledad]

1 minute ago, Double Eagle said:

I'm more in favor using their tents.  You don't have buy them.  Really, you can treat them rough...sorry.  If damaged on the trail, a staffed camp may help replace it.  They don't take up room while you are traveling to and from the center.  I'm not in favor of all the solo tents.  How about doubling up, reduce footprints, and when adults demo solo tents, every scout then wants the same.  And please don't suggest Philmont allow hammocks. 

Why not?

Barry

[SteveMM]

4 minutes ago, Double Eagle said:

I'm not in favor of all the solo tents. 

My son has a brand new (read: no food ever inside it) solo tent that the'd planned to take to Philmont, but he was told that they only want participants to use two-person ones because it reduces the amount of space in camps taken up by tents.

3 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Why not?

Barry

Bears think hammocks are tacos.

[mrkstvns]

4 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Why not?

Many reasons.  Banning hammocks is a good idea (and practiced in some of those National Parks you might like visiting).

The problem is that hammocks damage trees and if you've got some place that's an established trail site, then you're not just exposing a tree to dynamic stress and friction damage to the bark on a 1-time basis, but rather repeatedly as many crews come along the trail and use the same perfect tree over and over.

Some of the damage to bark can be mitigated by using pads (aka, "tree huggers") on the ropes to reduce friction, but the basic laws of physics will still apply and the trees can still suffer stress damage (not dissimilar to repeated exposure to high wind speeds).

Outdoor ethics is kind of a fluid concept. The idea isn't always to completely eliminate damage (or "traces"), but to at least be aware of our recreational impacts on the environment so that we can make better decisions. With hammocks, I might use one if I were well off trail in a dense forest with millions of trees, each of which can easily bear the relatively small impact of a hammock, but I would avoid it (and support hammock bans) where there are fewer trees and higher recreational impact.  

[Double Eagle]

Hammocks have their place per scouter.  Some of the campsites in our council have metal poles with rings just for them.  Campsites at Philmont get so much use, they are well groomed for tents and to sustain the size of a crew.  On a somewhat funny note, bear bags and hammocks may look the same to mini-bears and large bears.