World Jamboree - Reviews

[thrifty]

1 hour ago, qwazse said:

1. Bending over backwards to be sure GS/USA is invited. We had the potential to reach balanced sex ratios. Guide's from other countries commented on their conspicuous absence.

 

I wondered about this.  I saw posts about Girl Guides being as WSJ and that is the equivalent of GSUSA correct?  That's the whole reason for qwazse's comment.  Can anyone explain to me the relationship, if any, between GSUSA and WS? 

I like all of qwazse's other ideas. 

[HashTagScouts]

1 minute ago, thrifty said:

I wondered about this.  I saw posts about Girl Guides being as WSJ and that is the equivalent of GSUSA correct?  That's the whole reason for qwazse's comment.  Can anyone explain to me the relationship, if any, between GSUSA and WS? 

I like all of qwazse's other ideas. 

GSUSA is a member of the World Association of Girl Guides and Girl Scouts, they are not a member of the World Organization of the Scout Movement. 

[Cleveland Rocks]

7 minutes ago, HashTagScouts said:

GSUSA is a member of the World Association of Girl Guides and Girl Scouts, they are not a member of the World Organization of the Scout Movement. 

No, but they could have been invited. Here's the text of eligibility requirements for the World Jamboree as it pertains to WAGGGS members like GSUSA:

"Youth and adults of national Girl Guide/Girl Scout associations (i.e., those who are members of WAGGGS only) may attend the event with the agreement of the WOSM organization in their country."

This means GSUSA members could have attended as part of the U.S. contingent provided they were invited by the BSA.

But would you really expect the BSA to invite them, considering the current bad blood? GSUSA is suing the BSA for trademark infringement, their organization has badmouthed us on more occasions than I can remember, and many of their councils have gone out of their way lately to avoid being seen in public with us (Memorial Day flag plantings, parades, Scout Days at ball games and amusement parks, Scouting for Food drives, etc.). We could be as cordial and "friendly, courteous, kind" as we want, but I couldn't see an invitation like that going over well.

Other countries had their Girl Guide/Girl Scout units there with their contingent because in many countries the girl organizations are members of both WOSM and WAGGGS (they're apparently known as "SAGNOs", although I do not know what that stands for). I saw a few uniforms there from other countries that had patches on them that had both the World Crest and WAGGGS logo.

[qwazse]

38 minutes ago, Cleveland Rocks said:

... But would you really expect the BSA to invite them, considering the current bad blood? ...

Sorry for my naivete. I keep thinking the fourth point of the scout law actually means something.

There's no bad blood between my troop and any GS/USA troop. I formed a crew because two troops wanted to go to Seabase together. Every year, including this one, GS/USA troops join my district in decorating veteran's graves. Last week I talked to a steadily advancing Scouts BSA girl who works hard recruit female leaders for activities, yet she detests the GS/USA - BSA administrative boundaries.

Yes, I know this is a "big ask" ... to the point of being fanciful. But, almost half of our fellow youth citizens missed out on the opportunity that WSJ's fellowship and foibles provide. And that's a shame.

[Treflienne]

2 hours ago, Cleveland Rocks said:

Other countries had their Girl Guide/Girl Scout units there with their contingent because in many countries the girl organizations are members of both WOSM and WAGGGS (they're apparently known as "SAGNOs", although I do not know what that stands for). I saw a few uniforms there from other countries that had patches on them that had both the World Crest and WAGGGS logo.

Apparently a SAGNO is a "Scout and Guide National Organization",  a joint organization of Boy Scouts and Girl Guides/Scouts within a country.

Which raises the issue of whether to register the girls with  with WOSM, WAGGGS, or both

https://www.wagggs.org/en/about-us/membership/types-membership/

http://euroscoutinfo.com/2011/06/23/european-sagnos-register-girls-and-young-women-to-wosm/

http://www.skatamal.is/english/

[Cleveland Rocks]

1 hour ago, qwazse said:

There's no bad blood between my troop and any GS/USA troop. I formed a crew because two troops wanted to go to Seabase together. Every year, including this one, GS/USA troops join my district in decorating veteran's graves.

Yes, I know this is a "big ask" ... to the point of being fanciful. But, almost half of our fellow youth citizens missed out on the opportunity that WSJ's fellowship and foibles provide. And that's a shame.

To be clear, any "bad blood" is not with individual units, but with the GSUSA national leadership and (some) council leadership of the GSUSA. It's GSUSA councils that are telling their units to "turn in" any BSA members they see at their cookie booths. It was the GSUSA council in central Florida that told their membership to not wear their uniforms to Scout Day at Legoland earlier this year because (gasp!) Boy Scouts would also be present. It's GSUSA councils who have put out the memos to their troops not to participate in parades when BSA units will be present.

And at our Memorial Day grave decoration ceremony this year at our local National Cemetery, the lack of Girl Scouts at the event was quite noticeable. The organizers said that they got very few responses from troops this year, despite being invited along with all other Scout units the same as they do every year.

My point is that if the BSA extended an invitation to GSUSA to participate in the World Scout Jamboree, I think we all know what GSUSA's response would have been.

[GMath]

2 minutes ago, Cleveland Rocks said:

My point is that if the BSA extended an invitation to GSUSA to participate in the World Scout Jamboree, I think we all know what GSUSA's response would have been.

Its quite likely that you are correct. It still would have been the classy thing to do.

[Saltface]

15 minutes ago, Cleveland Rocks said:

It's GSUSA councils that are telling their units to "turn in" any BSA members they see at their cookie booths.

What does that mean?

[qwazse]

10 minutes ago, Cleveland Rocks said:

... My point is that if the BSA extended an invitation to GSUSA to participate in the World Scout Jamboree, I think we all know what GSUSA's response would have been.

 

7 minutes ago, GMath said:

Its quite likely that you are correct. It still would have been the classy thing to do.

I don't think it's a matter of what is classy or not. It's a matter of looking at SAGNO's, determining if it was good for their nation, then extending an appeal (repeatedly, as every opportunity arises) in terms of what's best for our nation. In the coming decades, if these two organizations keep to their declining membership trajectory, and other splinter organizations keep to their ascending trajectory, we may be pressed to form a federation of independent US scouting movements anyway.

[Eagledad]

8 minutes ago, qwazse said:

 

I don't think it's a matter of what is classy or not. It's a matter of looking at SAGNO's, determining if it was good for their nation, then extending an appeal (repeatedly, as every opportunity arises) in terms of what's best for our nation. In the coming decades, if these two organizations keep to their declining membership trajectory, and other splinter organizations keep to their ascending trajectory, we may be pressed to form a federation of independent US scouting movements anyway.

The GSUSA has a reputation of following the guidance of political activism and the BSA has a reputation of self-serving policy development with touch of my way of the highway follow thru.

On the up side, I could see this an entertaining drama on Netflix. 

Barry

[Cleveland Rocks]

32 minutes ago, Saltface said:

What does that mean?

There are some councils that have taken an adversarial approach to the BSA in their area since the announcement of the BSA admitting girls into the Cub Scouts and Scouts BSA programs.

There have been many examples of directives given by some (not all) Girl Scout councils around the country as to what their troops can/can't do with respect to BSA membership and activities. One of those that was making the rounds during cookie booth season earlier this year was that there councils who had put out notice to their troops that they should "report", supposedly to the service unit director, or something like that, if they were approached at a booth by a BSA member. It was pretty much met with ridicule at the time. I'm not sure what, exactly, they were supposed to report, although many took it to believe that it was to report if the Boy Scouts were doing a fundraising booth at the same location as their cookie booth, which is pretty difficult to do, considering our popcorn sales are in the fall and their cookie booths are in late winter/early spring. I'm trying to find the posts on Facebook from when that all happened, but haven't found them yet.

Other councils have stated they do not want their members present at activities when BSA members are also present. An excerpt from the directives given by one GSUSA council:

"Do not participate in, allow, or promote any co-sponsored or co-branded events or programs that use either Girl Scouts’ name, logo, colors, or likenesses together with Boy Scouts. This includes long-standing events like Scouting for Food and Pine Car Derbies.
"Do not participate in joint flag ceremonies."

Then, of course, there's the kerfuffle from earlier this year at Legoland in Florida where, after hearing that BSA members would also be invited to Scout Day there (the nerve of Legoland to do something like that!), the local GSUSA council withdrew their sponsorship of the event, stating it was no longer an official Girl Scouts event (because Legoland would not acquiesce to their request to dis-invite the BSA members) and that while their girls could still go to Legoland that day, they should not wear their uniforms or activity shirts to the event, or otherwise make it evident that they were Girl Scouts.

[Eagledad]

4 minutes ago, Cleveland Rocks said:

 

Then, of course, there's the kerfuffle from earlier this year at Legoland in Florida where, after hearing that BSA members would also be invited to Scout Day there (the nerve of Legoland to do something like that!), the local GSUSA council withdrew their sponsorship of the event, stating it was no longer an official Girl Scouts event (because Legoland would not acquiesce to their request to dis-invite the BSA members) and that while their girls could still go to Legoland that day, they should not wear their uniforms or activity shirts to the event, or otherwise make it evident that they were Girl Scouts.

Hmm, isn't their uniforms and activity shirts the same tie dye t-shirt? 

Barry

[thrifty]

I realized my question might not have a simple answer but didn't intend for it to go so far off topic.  I will just accept that GSUSA probably doesn't want to be involved with World Organization of the Scout Movement.  I'm just curious about the dynamics of these various groups and how it all fits together.  Seems like the GSUSA would fit well with the more liberal point of view I've been seeing from European scouts on Facebook for the past year.

My family was only at WSJ on Sat. but we had a great time. No complaints for our one day.  Arrival and departure were easy and everyone was nice. 

 

 

[qwazse]

Ya know what? All you all who did not PM me to at least try a meet-up are also on my list of what could be better at Jambo, 

[mashmaster]

To change the mood, anyone else going to be at National Jambo in 2021?  I will be there.  I would love to meet y'all